CC 0.4 print core is defective

[MAKRO 1]

The new printcore has stopped working after only a few hours, the print core seems to be obstructed, and no matter how i try to clean and unblock the nozzle nothing comes out 

What is the problem caused by? I would not recommend to buy it, another friend with ultimaker had the same problem. 

We have communicated this issue rapidly to the customer to ask a refund or a substitution in warrancy but we didn't have an answer yet

I think this product quality need to be checked by the producer before selling to customer at very high price 

Hope to receive some kind of answer and explanation soon 

[gr5 2,267]

This is rare but probably more common on a brand new machine.  I'd guess that there was a tiny bit of something either in the bowden tube or on the filament that got carried along into the nozzle.  Something that doesn't melt at 200C such as a bit of teflon or PFA or a grain of sand or bit of metal.

 

Anyway - try a cold pull.  Go to the menu on the UM3/S3/S5 and under maintenance (I think) somewhere there is an option to do hot and cold pulls.  Try the cold pull until you get a perfect image of the tip.

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi, thank you for your post and welcome to the forums. 

 

3 hours ago, MAKRO said:

The new printcore has stopped working after only a few hours, the print core seems to be obstructed, and no matter how i try to clean and unblock the nozzle nothing comes out 

Can you perhaps elaborate a little bit further about what you have tried to unblock it, and what (material) you printed or tried to print before it got clogged?

 

If you haven't found instructions yet, you can find them here. Of course we don't know yet what is blocking it, but we haven't ran into many print cores that couldn't be cleaned anymore. Good luck! 

[gr5 2,267]

By the way - many times what seems like a "blocked nozzle" is actually some other problem such as a "3rd fan broken" (the fan in the door of the print head which should always be on when either core is above 60C) or perhaps the feeder has an issue.

[MAKRO 1]

Hello, i've got an update for you

 

After many tries i finally made to remove the clogged material inside the new CC 0.4

I used a pin, heated more the print head and with lot of patience and many cold pulls i cleaned perfectly

 

I tried again to print but happened the same, after few hours the material gets clogged 

and i had to do a long cleaning again

 

i tried on the Ultimaker S5 with material station and ultimaker S3 to print 

Because i know they have different bowden gears 

But it's always the same, after few hours it stops printing and get clogged

 

I'm printing with Paht cf 15 and Pet cf 15  Basf

i changed themperature both higher and lower, and the speed is very low 30 mm/s 

The fans are ok, they don't have any problem 

And i don't have any problem printing with 0.6 CC red nozzles teh same materials 

 

To me the problem is the bowden system, it is not compatible with 0.4 mm, and talking with my local reseller, he's having the same problems printing with 0.4 due to bowden system 

 

Can you explain why there are so many problems printing with it? What i should do to print with it? 

have you noticed this problematic before putting on the market this new 0.4 CC nozzle? 

 

Thanks 

 

 

[IRobertI 521]

If I were to guess I'd say it's the carbon fibre filling in the filament that is causing issues. The smaller the nozzle, the harder it is for these fibres to get through. A classic back from the old old days were the wood filaments that were popular at the time, they had a hard time with anything smaller than 0.6 because they kept jamming.

 

Easy to test. Clean the nozzle thoroughly again and then print with a "normal" material such as PLA and see if it still clogs up or not.

[MAKRO 1]

Maybe it's caused by this filament, Paht cf 15 from basf is really rigid and tough to extrude

Can you please suggest me a good CF filament to use? that maybe you have already tested and have good result in printing with CC 0.4 ? 

I'm printing quite simple objects, not something with hard geometry and lot of retractions 

 

[TimonR 21]

Hi Makro,
 

Interesting to hear, and obviously not something we aim for. Can you give some more details?

 

1. What layer heights are you using?

2. Which profile are you using (with what print temperatures)?

3. Especially for the PAHT - as this as nylon-based material: did you dry your material before printing or keep it in a dry storage box?

 

So with respect to question 1:

Both of these filaments have carbon fibers in the range of 0.1 - 0.2 mm length, possibly slightly longer even... I guess a 0.2 mm layer height would be the safest option. Clogging might occur more often at 0.15 mm layer height (?)

 

Related to question 2:

For PET there is a quite sharp melting temperature at 240~250C. Ideally, you'd like to be at least 10-20C over this melting temperature. However, if you go too high (over 270C) you'll see degradation in the form of stringing (especially if your material has taken up some moisture).

Related to question 3:
Printing nylons with CF at high temperatures basically means that you need your material to be really dry, as you should be above the melting temperature and below the degradation. Degradation of Nylons is especially affected by humidity. 

It helps to use a dry box specifically for Nylon filaments, like this one from FiberThree for example: https://www.fiberthree.com/ecosystem.

So about your recommendation for a good CF: What kind of properties do you want from your CF parts? Stiffness and strength or the matt-CF look?

[MAKRO 1]

Hi Timon, 

 

I've used 0.15 mm of height for every profile, so i will raise to 0.2 and do further tests

I've modified the suggested basic profile, i have changed some parameters, especially i've increased a bit the temp to 265 degrees, i'll put in attached the modified profile, to show you, maybe i'm using some wrong parameters 

yes the material is dried, i kept it in material station or polymaker dry box while printing on S3

 

Regarding Pet carbon i'll do further tests raising the height here too, but the profile is very similar to previous one for Paht

 

Regarding the properties, we need some good mechanical properties, stiffness, strenght and wearing resistance, combined with a good compatibility in printing with the 0.4 cc, the matt finish look is not something we care about 

 

Many thanks for your help

appreciated 

PAHTCF15 BASF CC 0.4.curaprofile

[RudydG 62]

On 10/4/2021 at 5:50 PM, MAKRO said:

Hello, i've got an update for you

 

After many tries i finally made to remove the clogged material inside the new CC 0.4

I used a pin, heated more the print head and with lot of patience and many cold pulls i cleaned perfectly

 

I tried again to print but happened the same, after few hours the material gets clogged 

and i had to do a long cleaning again

 

i tried on the Ultimaker S5 with material station and ultimaker S3 to print 

Because i know they have different bowden gears 

But it's always the same, after few hours it stops printing and get clogged

 

I'm printing with Paht cf 15 and Pet cf 15  Basf

i changed themperature both higher and lower, and the speed is very low 30 mm/s 

The fans are ok, they don't have any problem 

And i don't have any problem printing with 0.6 CC red nozzles teh same materials 

 

To me the problem is the bowden system, it is not compatible with 0.4 mm, and talking with my local reseller, he's having the same problems printing with 0.4 due to bowden system 

 

Can you explain why there are so many problems printing with it? What i should do to print with it? 

have you noticed this problematic before putting on the market this new 0.4 CC nozzle? 

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

Just my 2cents 😉

In both product datasheets i read 0.6mm minimum nozzle size. I think you can stay trying forever with the 0.4mm, and it will probably never work!

[TimonR 21]

Hi @MAKRO,

 

Thanks for your update!

 

I actually found also a microscopy picture of a printed part 0.2 mm layer height with BASF PET CF, so you can get a feeling for the length of the fibers (versus your layer height). Also, like @RudydG is saying in the comment above: The length and wt% of CF determines the lowest layer height - so suppliers typically state a minimum nozzle size.

 

If you're looking for mechanical properties like wear resistance and stiffness I think you're looking into the right materials (PET or PA based CF materials).

Let's see, so you might actually use the Marketplace profile from BASF PET CF 15 to get the settings as tuned by the supplier. However I noticed that it doesn't have a CC0.4 profile.

Normally I would not consider using a random other material, but if you pay close attention to the datasheets, you can actually see that BASF PET CF is very similar to Lehmann Voss 3F PET CF. They are both PET (not PETG) based CF materials with 15% CF loading. This material does have a profile for the CC0.4 core with 0.15 mm layer height. I'd recommend using that as a starting point:
 https://marketplace.ultimaker.com/app/cura/materials/thiagomedeiros/PETCF9780

Main reason for using this print profile are higher printing temperature (267C) - or alternatively, modify your own profile with their settings? I guess that might work for printing with PET CF using a CC0.4 core?

If that still does give you issues please let us and/or the supplier know, so they can improve their print profile.

 

Please also specify what kind of error you get. If you're on the same network as your printer, you can also follow what happens by accessing the API (via: http://[printer_ip_here]/docs/api). I typically use that to see if the heater can actually deliver enough heat to melt the material (which leads to an ER31).

 

With the PAHT CF15 using a CC0.4 core I don't have much experience myself, nor do I see a profile from BASF for the CC0.4. There are some from Lehvoss and Fiberthree using CF Nylons (PA6), maybe giving those profiles a shot might work?

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by TimonR

[MAKRO 1]

Thank you Timon, 

 

Now it's clear, my bad! didn't notice this reccomendation regarding minimum nozzle size!

And it's clear that with this long carbon fiber basf filaments has,  the nozzle 0.4 gets clogged easily 

 

Thank you for the lehvoss filament reccomendation, i will get hands on it soon hopefully and update when i'll start printing it for a feedback 

 

Meanwhile i'll try some prints with PA-6 CF , PA-12 CF and PA6-GF from polymaker, they should be compatible from cura and the data sheets of materials with 0.4 CC nozzles, these filaments i already have filaments spools 

I'll update you with feedbacks