REQUEST S5 Bundle and Aborted Prints... HELP!

[rachael7 74]

Okay, so I've got to scream a little bit here and request, firmly and with all due haste, that the workflow for failed/aborted prints on the S5 w/material station be seriously reworked. Allow me to give a use case/example of the issue. User is printing with UM Polycarbonate or Nylon, which as you know take a VERY long time to heat up because of the 110-120C bed and 250C+ nozzle temperatures. One challenge with these high temp materials is that the nozzles often ooze a bit during the heating cycle that occurs immediately prior to bed leveling and that ooze, if not wiped off, can (and often does) cause a bed leveling failure. Manually wiping the nozzles during startup is problematic already, both because the operator should not have to babysit the machine that closely and more importantly, because wiping the nozzles requires opening the door and letting the chamber cool off, which risks ruining the layer adhesion at the beginning of the print. That point aside, if the operator misses the moment to wipe the nozzles (there's only a few seconds when the nozzles are hot enough before the leveling begins), here is what happens:

 

1. Leveling fails because of material on the end of the nozzle(s), print head returns home and bed lowers

2. Message appears on-screen alerting the operator to the error, with a button to acknowledge the message. The operator presses the button.

3. The machine cools the print core(s), does the special end-of-print pull(s) to put a point on the filament(s), and completely rewinds the filament(s) back onto the spool(s)

4. The machine cools the 110-120C build plate down to 60C and presents the end-of-print message to confirm the build plate is clear. The operator confirms the build plate is clear.

5. The machine homes the head and build plate and presents the message telling the operator the print was aborted and asking if they want to retry. Operator selects 'yes'.

6. The now-cool build plate begins heating again, the filament(s) is(are) fed all the way back in from the material station, and the cycle starts all over again, while the operator curses furiously and hopes they're quick enough to catch the ooze at the right moment next time.

 

That whole cycle takes close to 30 minutes with high temp filaments! 

 

Now consider that situation more closely.  Immediately upon failure of bed leveling, the machine knows full well it hasn't printed anything yet, because it did not even complete the leveling, so the build plate is clear and does not need to be cooled to release a print. The machine also knows there is a good possibility the operator will want to try again, especially when it stopped for failed leveling and not a manual abort, hence the presentation of the option to retry. Since the machine knows the operator might want to retry, it also knows there's a good chance it might not need to unload the filament.  Knowing all that, why not the following workflow instead:

 

1. Leveling fails because of material on the end of the nozzle(s) or some other reason

2. Print head comes to front center and bed lowers halfway. Print cores come to standby temp and bed is kept hot, at least for 5-10 minutes to give the operator a chance to reach the machine. It could time out after some reasonable amount of time and revert to current behavior then.

3. Prior to timeout, a message appears on-screen alerting operator to the failure and asking if they want to retry.

4. Operator selects yes to retry.

5. Machine presents a message saying "Please confirm the bed and nozzles are clear/clean before proceeding", along with a button labeled "Proceed" or something like that.

6. Operator cleans the nozzles and bed, and presses the confirmation/proceed button. The machine returns to work.

 

With the bed hot and the cores at standby temp, it only takes a minute or two before it can try again! And it saves unnecessary loading and unloading of the filaments, preventing the possibility of jams and load failures, as well as saving wear and tear on the machine.

 

There are other use cases where the workflow is very similar and equally cumbersome, such as when the first layer fails or the operator aborts when they realize the settings are off, and a very similar workflow could be used. The only difference would be that the operator likely would have added a new print to the queue with changed settings. In cases like that, the machine could check the queue, and if the same material(s) is(are) being used, it could keep the bed hot and the nozzles at standby until the operator confirms the bed is clear and the next print could begin immediately. That workflow would require allowing the operator to clear the build plate while it is hot, but we're all adults here (seriously, how many children are using a $10k printer) and there are plenty of ways to clear the bed while it is hot without hurting yourself.  It could at least be enabled as an option, with appropriate warnings, disclaimers, and whatnot, a "pro" mode if you will.

 

Even if you're too concerned about the liability to let the operator clear a hot bed, you might at least consider the first case I presented where the build plate at most needs a little scrape to clear off stuck bits from the previous bed leveling attempt.  It literally just took me over an hour to run a 10 minute print because twice in a row I missed the tiny window of time to clean off the nozzles. And that is with me having overridden the hot bed interlock through SSH so it didn't even have to wait for the bed to cool off. In the factory configuration it would have taken 90 minutes or more! Please, I'm begging you, find a way to improve the workflow on abort cases. I love this machine, but as a user of engineering filaments, it is not at all uncommon for me to abort prints for one reason or another, and I'm losing so much time to these workflow issues, I'm ready to scream. I'm a consultant who charges by the hour and this abort cycle time issue is literally costing me thousands of dollars a month in billable time! Thank you very much for your consideration.

Edited January 27, 2022 by rachael7

[neute 16]

I second this. IMO all the "smarts" and closely defined workflows make the machine very time consuming to use, which has often made me choose another printer from the workforce altogether if something needed be done quickly.

 

While I do see the benefit of "babysitting" the user, e.g. having pre-definded states and workflows that make it more or less impossible for an unexperienced user to screw things up, a "pro" mode that gets rid of the abovementioned issues, as well as would allow for some basic stuff (set fixed IP, remove printed parts instantly, clear the "print removed" state from the webinterface etc...) would be a great addition for advanced and experienced users, that would make the machine much less tiresome to use.

 

best, Niklas

[Simon-IWK 1]

Yes, exactly. Total failure...

[Super_paulie 12]

I third this. Drives me absolutely mental. A tiny bit of ooze and the probe fails, leaving me having to stand there for 30 minutes for it to cool down only for it to then have to immediately heat up again for round 2.

 

Many a time I've gone to set a print off on my way home and I've ended up sat there just cursing at the printer for another 30 minutes.

 

And like above, I default back to my UM2 many times because my S5 just takes sooooo long to do anything, never mind the tedious bed leveling every single time. "do you want to level bed, might result in failed bed adhesion,Yes/Skip" disclaimer to the user, surely!

 

But a button for a quick failed print retry with a hot bed, please!!!

Edited January 28, 2022 by Super_paulie

[Smithy 1,144]

Maybe that helps a bit:

https://github.com/SmithyAT/UltiTuner

 

[Super_paulie 12]

defo going to look into that Smithy, just need time when the printer isnt in use! its pretty much 24/7 in here with really long jobs. 

It looks great though. Most of those commands should really be in a "developer/pro mode" within the firmware, especially the bed levelling as our bed never moves and the hot end wrecks the kapton. Im defiantly gunna give the tuner a go hopefully this afternoon.

What does this do in terms of warranty on the machine...?

[Smithy 1,144]

52 minutes ago, Super_paulie said:

What does this do in terms of warranty on the machine...?

Good question, I would say it should be no problem in case something bad happens, but I am not an expert on the warranty topic. You can always revert the changes you did. When you i.e. enable the active leveling again, then the file looks like before you have changed something.

 

To disable the bed leveling, the tool changes one value directly in the source code of the firmware. To change the cool down procedure, the tool modifies the so called safe temperature from 60 to something else.

 

Basically it is safe to use this tool, it uses methods we found out over the time and a lot of users are using these methods already. The tool just makes it easier for users which are not so used to use ssh and a linux command line.

 

A firmware update usually overwrites these changes again, so after an update you have to do the changes again.

 

[Smithy 1,144]

Here is the thread if you want to discuss features, problems or whatever 🙂

 

 

[fbrc8-erin 283]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:53 AM, Super_paulie said:

defo going to look into that Smithy, just need time when the printer isnt in use! its pretty much 24/7 in here with really long jobs. 

It looks great though. Most of those commands should really be in a "developer/pro mode" within the firmware, especially the bed levelling as our bed never moves and the hot end wrecks the kapton. Im defiantly gunna give the tuner a go hopefully this afternoon.

What does this do in terms of warranty on the machine...?

Full warranty policy here: https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011627400-Ultimaker-S-line-warranty

 

This would probably fall into the third party section under conditions if I was going to hazard a guess.