Visible bottom print layers

[LordHokage 7]

Hi everyone!

I hope you doing well and staying safe. 

I turned on my UMO+ after a while and started to print. I seem to get these gaps and have tried to fiddle with settings and bed levelling to get it to work to no avail.

I've attached two pictures below that should give some idea of what's happening. 

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

Thanks!

[Smithy 1,135]

I would say your bed leveling is not ok and you need to level the nozzle closer to the bed.

[GregValiant 983]

I don't know @Smithy.  In the first image the bottom layer is poor but you can see enough of layer 2 and layer 3 that they aren't so good either?

Here it is blown up a bit.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by GregValiant

[Smithy 1,135]

You are right @GregValiant, we are looking here from the top to print bed. I assumed it shows the bottom of the object, thus showing the first layer.

 

Looks really strange, hmmm, @LordHokage can you post your project file please.

[GregValiant 983]

I cut it out of my blow-up, but check out the poster's first image and the skirt above the model and then compare it to the way the skirt looks below the model.

 

Machines need to be exercised and it sounds like that one sat for a bit.

Edited February 20, 2022 by GregValiant

[Smithy 1,135]

Could also be something mechanical, because it looks like that the upper part of the skirt is ok, but the lower part has a huge space between the lines. Maybe a loose pulley and the whole thing shifted a little bit?

[LordHokage 7]

10 hours ago, Smithy said:

You are right @GregValiant, we are looking here from the top to print bed. I assumed it shows the bottom of the object, thus showing the first layer.

 

Looks really strange, hmmm, @LordHokage can you post your project file please.

This is the top layer (sorry for not clarifying in my post) with ironing. I thought that ironing the top might help but it didn't.

 

I don't have a calibration card, and there are none in Australia, where do you think I could get some?

 

10 hours ago, GregValiant said:

I cut it out of my blow-up, but check out the poster's first image and the skirt above the model and then compare it to the way the skirt looks below the model.

 

Machines need to be exercised and it sounds like that one sat for a bit.

It was left and I bought it after a while but I keep printing every week on the weekends so I'd like to think that its exercised.

7 hours ago, Smithy said:

Could also be something mechanical, because it looks like that the upper part of the skirt is ok, but the lower part has a huge space between the lines. Maybe a loose pulley and the whole thing shifted a little bit?

I'll retry tightening the pulleys  but do you think its got something to do with the e-steps??

[LordHokage 7]

@Smithy and @GregValiant,

do you guys think its got anything to do with the position of the z-stop??

It is a umo+ after all..

 

[Smithy 1,135]

No I don't think it is the z-stop, you have a problem with x/y but not z as far as I can see it.

e-steps? I would say no, I looks more like a loose pulley. Check all, also the ones on the stepper motors.

The belts are ok?

 

23 hours ago, LordHokage said:

I don't have a calibration card, and there are none in Australia, where do you think I could get some?

You don't need a calibration card, take a piece of paper, that should do it as well.

[LordHokage 7]

@Smithy

 

2 hours ago, Smithy said:

No I don't think it is the z-stop, you have a problem with x/y but not z as far as I can see it.

e-steps? I would say no, I looks more like a loose pulley. Check all, also the ones on the stepper motors.

The belts are ok?

 

You don't need a calibration card, take a piece of paper, that should do it as well.

Everything seems ok. 

Retighten the pulley's? There doesn't seem to be any layer shifting though..

I thought about the calibration card because I don't trust my manual bed levelling...

Edited February 22, 2022 by LordHokage

[LordHokage 7]

@Smithy, I got one slightly better print but even jacking up the flow rate did nothing...

I think it has to do with my bed levelling. That's always the problem right?

[Smithy 1,135]

Often, yes.

 

But start a print, and take a picture of the first layer, nothing more, just the first layer, then we can check the leveling. But keep everything else as default. 

 

 

[LordHokage 7]

ok @Smithy here they are.

Please ignore the blob on the first picture, that was when i stopped the print. 

It's either gaps in the extrusion lines or just no extrusion at all with this guy.

 

[Mechatron127 0]

Maybe stupid question, how is your line width setting compared to the nozzle diameter?

[Smithy 1,135]

You need to level closer to the bed. Take a piece of normal paper and move the paper during leveling, when you feel that the nozzle scratches the paper you should be fine. 
 

Check also if your nozzle has a clean tip.

[LordHokage 7]

21 hours ago, Mechatron127 said:

Maybe stupid question, how is your line width setting compared to the nozzle diameter?

@Mechatron127, I bought this printer second hand so I don't actually know the line diameter....I'd assume that it would be the standard UMO+ nozzle.

20 hours ago, Smithy said:

You need to level closer to the bed. Take a piece of normal paper and move the paper during leveling, when you feel that the nozzle scratches the paper you should be fine. 
 

Check also if your nozzle has a clean tip.

@Smithy, I've gone through this a million times, but how much scratch??

Also, the bowden clips have both disappeared, where would I get replacements instead of printing shoddy ones.

Edited March 7, 2022 by LordHokage

[Smithy 1,135]

Printing these clips is working well, I did it some times myself, but you can also buy these clips at any Ultimaker reseller.

 

Regarding scratching, yes a good question and I can only say you will get a feeling of how much is the correct way. But I level my beds in a way that I can move the paper but I can feel that the nozzle scratches the paper. Or in other words bring the nozzle so close that you cannot move the paper anymore and then turn it just a little bit away. 

 

And during the first layer the line/filament should be squished in the bed, you want to see a flat line and not a "round" one that looks like that the nozzle just lays down the filament. It needs to be squished into the bed.

 

You can also turn the screws during the first layer print. just turn them 1/4 turn closer when you see it is not squished enough.

[LordHokage 7]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:22 PM, Smithy said:

Printing these clips is working well, I did it some times myself, but you can also buy these clips at any Ultimaker reseller.

 

Regarding scratching, yes a good question and I can only say you will get a feeling of how much is the correct way. But I level my beds in a way that I can move the paper but I can feel that the nozzle scratches the paper. Or in other words bring the nozzle so close that you cannot move the paper anymore and then turn it just a little bit away. 

 

And during the first layer the line/filament should be squished in the bed, you want to see a flat line and not a "round" one that looks like that the nozzle just lays down the filament. It needs to be squished into the bed.

 

You can also turn the screws during the first layer print. just turn them 1/4 turn closer when you see it is not squished enough.

Interesting thought there @Smithy!!

I really do think it is just me not levelling the bed properly. Do you have any clip models you think work well??

I will try relevelling the bed again but the nozzle diameter is 0.4. It that a problem??

[Smithy 1,135]

5 hours ago, LordHokage said:

Do you have any clip models you think work well??

I am sorry, I just downloaded one from THingiverse or Youmagine and haven't saved them. But I think they are all working.

 

The 0.4 nozzle is fine, no problem, that's the standard one. But check also your Cura settings, what you have set for line width as @Mechatron127 mentioned earlier.

 

Also check that you don't have any special settings in Cura, use just a default profile.

 

And check also your feeder, if is working well or not, after you have these clips installed again. When your Bowden slips out of the feeder then it could also cause some problems. So fix that first.

[LordHokage 7]

@Smithy (and @Mechatron127) thank you. I will try that this weekend. I was thinking about the line widths..

 

As this is a printer for work, it would be ideal to find the original c-clip. Where can I get one?

I rather not print them if I can do so

Edited March 10, 2022 by LordHokage
added the second question.

[geert_2 556]

If you want to print horseshoe clips, you could try my design: these are way easier to remove and place back than the originals. I designed them for myself and have been using them for years now. These are for an UM2, so I don't know if they would fit on an UMO too, but I gues so?

 

 

You can find it on my page here (then scroll a bit):

https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/geert-keteleer/manuals/

 

As for the nozzle-height, my first layers are well squished into the glass bed, and look like this, seen from below (=touching the glass plate):

 

 

 

 

If you don't get a similar surface, then or your nozzle is way too high, or you have something else going on, such as a flow problem? Maybe a partially blocked nozzle? Filament feeder slipping? Temperature way too low so the filament does not melt? Or you have set 1.75mm filament while using 2.85mm, so it feeds too little? Or something along that line of thinking?