ER65 always the same position?

[Andrew_W 8]

I started a print on our S5 and at the start of the 3rd layer it stopped with a ER65 after about 30min. Everything look good up to that point. I aborted the print and started again and it stopped at the exact same layer and position. I tried once again with the same result. What is going on?

 

Attached are the files for the part. Marked in the image is where it stopped each time.

 

Thanks.

 

I ended up rotating the part 90° about the Z axis and it printed fine.

 

 

 

UMS5_Printed holder.3mf UMS5_Printed holder.ufp UMS5_Printed holder.gcode

Edited September 27, 2022 by Andrew_W
Changed image

[Andrew_W 8]

Anyone?

[Torgeir 242]

Hi @Andrew_W

 

Check according to this routine:

 

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011706239-ER65-Extrusion-problem-detected

 

Torgeir

[Torgeir 242]

If you save your printed object as a project file, it will be a lot easier as more information about setting and filament type is included in here here.

 

Torgeir

 

[Andrew_W 8]

Hello @Torgeir, I did look at the support page, but I think the error was a false flag. As I could abort and then restart the print immediately and it wold stop in the exact same spot (about 30min into the print). I tried this 3 times and on the third one I watched very closely, as soon as it moved to position to start the 3rd layer I could see that it stopped extruding and the error came up after about 10sec. And also rotating the project 90° resolved the issue? So I have no idea what caused the problem and how to avoid it in the future? Normally I start the print and go home but this time I was delayed and noticed it had stopped.

 

I've attached the project file this time (I think).

 

UMS5_667164299_UMS5_Printedholder.3mf

[Torgeir 242]

Hi @Andrew_W,

 

Just arrived home after some work at another place.

Anyhow I've been looking into this problem as a hardware issue.

This because (error) ER65 meaning there is "some" problem to obtain a proper flow through to the nozzle.

 

This could be due to some partial blocking of the nozzle/extruder head, I.E as the flow sensor detect reduced speed VS actual speed command for the feeder, hence the ER65.

 

As your model was printed without this error when turned 90 degrees, an explanation of this is also to be found..

 

Your print object do not have any error, -however here is some issues with profile settings that can develop such an error.

 

As this object is printed "very" fast and with 0.3 mm height using a 0.4 mm nozzle, I'll think this is "quite" near the limit for these settings.

 

According to the "Extra fast" profile with 0,3 mm height and 50 mm/sec and UM "Pearl White" PLA with an increased temperature of 10 deg C.  increased from (200 to 210) deg C.

 

There is three thing to check:

 

First, is your nozzle (cartridge) absolutely clean?   There is cleaning method for this.

Two, reducing the printing speed will help!

Three, increase the printing temperature, say 5 deg C., but not more than 220 deg C. may also help.

I'll guess you have some time frames to overcome?

 

So an explanation of how a 90 deg rotation of "print object" may help when having such a problem.

Well, -this occur caused of increased y-axe movement that will reduce the friction a "little" in the bowden tube when the feeding pressure is high.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anew feature of the S printers "later firmware".

Maybe also worth mentioning, if this problem occur, is the possibility to turn of the flow sensor with this problem.

 

But there is some extra note about this you need to know, so read more about it here:

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011706239-ER65-Extrusion-problem-detected

 

 

This (error) ER43 is also related to the "Flow sensor", see here:

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011575440

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hope this help

Good luck

Torgeir

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrew_W 8]

Thanks for the reply @Torgeir. I'll keep all the suggestions in mind if the error returns again, as I still don't understand how it could stop in the exact same place 3 times in a row.

[Carbon 28]

3 hours ago, Andrew_W said:

Thanks for the reply @Torgeir. I'll keep all the suggestions in mind if the error returns again, as I still don't understand how it could stop in the exact same place 3 times in a row.

 

Hi Andrew,

 

Is the Filament damaged at 1 - 1.5Metres on the roll? Where the extruder wheel has "grinded" it down or damaged it? That would explain the same position every time.....?

[UlrichC-DE 109]

7 hours ago, Andrew_W said:

exact same place 3 times in a row.

Hello

At this point, the printer will want to increase the print speed. In doing so, it will notice that the material feed is springing back.

The bottom is usually printed slowly. Then the printing really starts.

Many greetings

[MariMakes 198]

Hey @Andrew_W,

 

I started your printjob on my S5 Probundle and I've not been getting any errors. 
This makes be believe that it's an hardware or material issue. 

 

Then it's better to reach out to our support experts.

You can create a ticket here: 

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000516360

[Torgeir 242]

I'll think @UlrichC-DE give a very good hint here, as the initial speed is 20 mm/sec and from the beginning of second layer it will start printing with 50 mm/sec! 

 

So now it is just another thing to check, the forward cooling fan, -cause this one can be blocked by stringing from the printing process. We have seen this fan completely blocked and partly blocked. So check this fan, sometimes difficult to see..

 

So if this one is blocked, the printing will go fine for some time, -until it stop printing completely. This is because the filament start softening in the upper part and simply become glued here. This is where we will find lots of grinding in the filament until there is no more to grab on for the feeder.

 

But if this fan is partial blocked, you may be able to print for a while, but your feeder will struggle "some" with added load.

However, if you need to print fast for some reason, we'll approaching fast "the limit" of feeding with this reduced cooling for the upper fan.

 

This may also explain why the object is printed well when turned 90 degrees?   😉

 

Torgeir

 

[Andrew_W 8]

Hello @MariMakes, I tried printing again from the project file I attached above today and like you, have found it prints OK. I also tried reprinting the aborted one again with the same result ER65 in the same place. (Could you try the Aborted G-code file on your S5?)

 

So I went back and downloaded one of the aborted jobs from my history in the Digital Factory and had a look at the G-code where the print failed. I then compared the G-code to the one that works. This is when I noticed the the failing code has some extra lines in it with M204 commands at the position that it stops extruding?

 

Does anyone know why this would be?

 

Thanks. 

 

Good UMS5_Printedholder.gcode Aborted UMS5_Printed_holder.gcode

[Andrew_W 8]

6 minutes ago, Torgeir said:

I'll think @UlrichC-DE give a very good hint here, as the initial speed is 20 mm/sec and from the beginning of second layer it will start printing with 50 mm/sec! 

 

So now it is just another thing to check, the forward cooling fan, -cause this one can be blocked by stringing from the printing process. We have seen this fan completely blocked and partly blocked. So check this fan, sometimes difficult to see..

 

So if this one is blocked, the printing will go fine for some time, -until it stop printing completely. This is because the filament start softening in the upper part and simply become glued here. This is where we will find lots of grinding in the filament until there is no more to grab on for the feeder.

 

But if this fan is partial blocked, you may be able to print for a while, but your feeder will struggle "some" with added load.

However, if you need to print fast for some reason, we'll approaching fast "the limit" of feeding with this reduced cooling for the upper fan.

 

This may also explain why the object is printed well when turned 90 degrees?   😉

 

Torgeir

 

Hello @Torgeir, I did check the fan (all clean), the feeder and also did a print core clean.

 

Thanks. 

[MariMakes 198]

Hey @Andrew_W,

 

I tried your new Aborted Gcode, and again am not getting any errors on my Probundle. 

I really think it's a hardware issue or material issue. 

 

In that case it's better to reach out to our support experts.

You can create a ticket here: 

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000516360

 

[Andrew_W 8]

8 minutes ago, MariMakes said:

Hey @Andrew_W,

 

I tried your new Aborted Gcode, and again am not getting any errors on my Probundle. 

I really think it's a hardware issue or material issue. 

 

In that case it's better to reach out to our support experts.

You can create a ticket here: 

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000516360

 

 

Thanks so much for trying the G-code 👍. I'll raise a ticket and see what happens.

[Imaginables3d 1]

HI @Andrew_W

 

From what you describe, I bet it has to do with your axial front fan. 

 

The front fan on the ultimaker s5 print head tend to suck in very fine fragments of filaments.. they kind of look like fairy floss. Please  check and clean the front fan.

 

The front fan should be spinning when the print cores are hot. it spins to keep the print cores from over heating.. if the printcore heat sinks overheat then the filament is too soft to push to the tip of the nozzle. that is why he is getting the error messages.

 

Here is the article on how to clean the front fan.

 

Clean the S-line front print head fan – Ultimaker Support

 

If need be and the front fan is can't be cleaned.. it is possible to replace the front fan.

 

Replacing the print head axial fan (front fan) – Ultimaker Support

 

We got your support ticket request.... and have alerted your reseller to reach out to you with the above suggestion.

 

[Andrew_W 8]

@Imaginables3d @MariMakes

 

I finally found the problem that was causing the ER65 code. On very very close inspection of the g-code I found that the layer was being duplicated at line 2201 for some reason. This put the print core at the same Z position on the layer it just finished thus not allowing any material to be extruded, and in combination with the flow sensor and the de-coupler on the material station it sensed that there was a problem. Disabling the flow sensor, or not using the material station prevented the layer error from being detected. This is why it always happened at the same spot no matter what bay, extruder or filament I used during testing.

 

This duplicated layer doesn't show up in preview in CURA. It's only because I have many years experience programing and running CNC machines and back plotting g-code that I found it. The back plot showed the Z not changing is what caught my eye.

 

I've not been able to reproduce the the code error in CURA 5.1

 

https://ncviewer.com/

 

 

AbortedUMS5_Printed_holder.gcode