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yellowshark

Multiple objects with skirt - addressed to Daid

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OK this if following on from the Multiple objects with brim thread. That logic makes sense. If you are using a brim then you want added adhesion and so adding a brim to all copies makes 100% sense.

Doing the same with a skirt does not make sense. A skirt has one use - to ensure the extruder pressure is equalised and that filament is flowing well. If you select multiple objects then the sensible solution is to put one skirt around the group of objects. The current method of putting a skirt around each member of the group means that you significantly reduce the number of objects that can be placed on the print bed.

If nothing else can we please have an option to assign a single skirt.

On a similar subject, can we please have an option, like Slic3R, to print a skirt when a brim is selected. If the model is small, then without a skirt, before you know it the brim has not seated properly, filament all over the build area and a failed print..

 

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If nothing else can we please have an option to assign a single skirt.

 

I think you should have been around long enough to know that my default answer to "Can we please have an option X" is "no"

(Also, I have bigger fish to fry, multi-object slicing seems broken in the latest RC)

 

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Nick on your first point: having a skirt around an object increases its surface area. If for example you can get 6 copies onto the bed, with reasonable tightness, then with the skirt replicated around each copy means there is no longer room on the bed to achieve that.

Yes to a certain extent you may be able to help the situation by reducing the radius of the skirt but that only goes so far. And, with my limited experience on t-glasse nylon, you really do not want to do that as you need a really decent sized skirt to get the filament sticking to the bed. Sorry I do not understand your 2nd idea re the changing the print head size, perhaps you could rephrase :) Cura does not give you a group skirt - that is my point!

 

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Daid, fine I was just trying to be helpful, unlike yourself. Forget about the option, just write the code properly and remove the multiple skirts which are a design error and use a single skirt - which is what should be happening and what your customers want.

 

You complain about a problem that doesn't even exist!

If you use skirt, but have multiple objects which are placed close to each other, then the skirt will just go around all these parts!

The problem you described initially does not exist, and you would have noticed that if you had simply tried it before complaining.

 

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Excuse me JB but your last sentence is out of order. Of course I tried to move the objects, several time, to try and fit in the extra ones I wanted to have on the bed. All that happens though (at least for me) is that there is a shadow box around the object and when that shadow box hits the shadow box of another object, they do not overlay, the adjacent object is moved, in my case of the build platform.

Please go back to my original and post please tell me where I was complaining? Show it to me and I will apologise to you, whoever.

Don't be an idiot and wrongly confuse me about complaining - about a problem that does not exist. Of course it exists, I am seeing it.

I posted a simple polite request to fix something that did not seem right to me, was impacting me and was illogical

NOW, if it exists for me because I am doing something wrong then be constructive not arrogant. Politely tell me I am wrong and explain to me how I do it.

All I get is a terse arrogant response from Ultimaker, followed up by you defending them

 

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Guys, guys, let's cool off a bit, no need to go down the road of name calling, we're all adults here :)

Now what I'm going to suggest isn't what you want, but it works. What I like to do is print without skirt and without brim whenever possible (which is most of the time in my case). To make sure the head is primed and ready for this what I do is manually heat the bed, then I use the "Move material" option and manually prime the head and finally I start the print which starts pretty much immediately since everything is at the correct temperature. I guess it's my old school ways from the original sticking around.

As for your last question, wouldn't increasing the size of the brim achieve the same thing pretty much? Or maybe I'm not reading it right.

 

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All I get is a terse arrogant response from Ultimaker, followed up by you defending them

 

You addressed me. Not Ultimaker. And I'm not pretending to be a nice person.

In general, I respond quick, fast and short. As I get quite a few questions and requests per day.

 

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Robert, you are of course right, clearly I was not happy but should have bitten my lip maybe. Actually I do the same as you, I nearly always manually extrude at least 30mm of filament before starting. But I do then have to wait for the bed to rise to the printing position and it also often takes several cm for the filament to get sticking to the bed, so I always like to have a decent size of skirt so that I know that when it moves to the print position everything is settled.

Also like you I avoid brims where possible, particular on the piece that led to my request. The top oval edge and the bottom oval edge are filleted to give a nice smooth rounded edge. Using a brim makes the bottom edge sharp and would require a lot of sanding/filing to get it smooth again. On one model maybe, but this was a production run for a client and it was not possible to use a brim = more printing cost or smoothing = more manual finishing cost.

But yes I think you are right, if one was using a brim then extending the brim would be good for laying down the filament as long as in surface area it was no bigger then the skirt, which in my case would I think have been OK - although I did reduce the skirt a bit to try and help with the fitment.

 

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Hi Daid, if I have this wrong then sorry, but I do not think I have it wrong. Your moniker gives the very strong impression that you work for Ultimaker. You write software for Ultimaker. If you do not work for Ultimaker then my apologies to Ultimaker. But I am sure you do and if you do, whether you like it or not, as an employee of the Company then participating on this Ultimaker user forum you represent the culture, the values and the service of that Company.

The very least you should do, in bold type, is to make it clear to all that your participation is as a private individual and any views you have or comments you make are not associated with or representative of Ultimaker's policies and operations.

If that IS the case I would appreciate it if you could advise how a user formally requests a software change request with Ultimaker as maybe the forum is not the best way to do it.

 

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Hi Nick thanks for that. Could you just explain a bit on how that affects it. I ask because, and my memory is a bit hazy on this, I think the gantry setting may have been zero but I had to enter gantry settings in order to be able to set the option “print one at a time”, which I wanted to do for this print s it was commercial.

I guess also I am struggling to see a connection between gantry settings and why Cura would choose to assign individual skirts around each copy of the model (as it did for me ) or choose to assign one skirt around the group of models.

 

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I both work for Ultimaker and am a community member. And actually one of the oldest community members around.

I started on Cura in my free time, and finally Ultimaker hired me to continue development and assist in other Ultimaker development.

I'm still running the whole Cura project on my own. And, you addressed me by my name, which assumes the knowledge of the above. You do a personal request and expect an corporate response. That's not how I roll.

 

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Well different cultures between the countries I guess. On the few other manufacturer user group forums I frequent (not 3D), one addresses questions to employees by name, if known, or to the company in general maybe by department. The individuals represent the Companies not themselves on the forums and answer accordingly unless stating in the answer that it is a personal view.

I will repost accordingly.

 

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I think most of us come from the country of the Internet's, where if you ask questions like an entitled prick, your going to get responses that treat you like one.

Cura is open source and is not software you paid for. Unless you fix the particular issue you're concerned with yourself (probably actually easier than you might think) or hire someone who knows python to fix it for you, your right to make feature requests like they are the ten commandments is pretty limited...

Moreover, i think you're generating a lot of ill will towards yourself over an issue that is extremely easy to solve. There are plenty of ways to prime the nozzle and make sure your bed is level, which is all it seems your trying to achieve from your group skirt.

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Cura is open source and is not software you paid for. Unless you fix the particular issue you're concerned with yourself (probably actually easier than you might think) or hire someone who knows python to fix it for you, your right to make feature requests like they are the ten commandments is pretty limited...

 

Actually, buy buying an Ultimaker you pay a tiny bit towards Cura. So that statement does not hold for a 100%.

However, some people seem to assume that because they got the software, and they are using it, they can dictate how development on it should go. This is not the case.

 

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Oh well NIck, I suppose it takes one to recognise one. All I want to do is to use an existing good feature, which is not just present in Cura, for what is was designed to do.

Daid, requesting a change is not seeking to dictate development. I am sure you are experienced in software development on a commercial scale and you will know I am sure that users submit requests for software change/correction for a huge variety of reasons. Equally the owners/authors of the software will accept or reject those requests again for a variety of reasons.

What the vast number of software development teams have to deal with is that they do not have the resources to test their software far enough to prevent bugs - accepting that zero defect software is a holy grail - particularly true in software like Cura which is tailorable by the user and of course used across a variety of hardware/firmware configurations.

.

 

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I'll render my opinion. (opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and they all stink). I don't see this thread going anywhere useful.

I think both sides are misreading the tone and intent. I think the best way to have handled would have been to provide instructions for opening a request in a more formal fashion. Seems like that would be the github tracker.

So everyone one should calm down.

 

;-)

 

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Sorry it took me a while to respond - I was away for the weekend.

I have to apologise to you yellowshark. I read this thread and quickly opened Cura to see how the skirt would behave with grouped objects. Cura generated a nice single skirt around a group of five objects placed near each other. So, I wrote my reply.

I didn't think about the fact that I always "print all at once" which indeed makes it possible to group objects close to each other and have a single skirt all around them. It does not work in "print one at a time" mode.

So, I'm sorry for my earlier, inappropriate reply!

 

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Hi Jonny, no problem my friend. It is very good of you to have revisited the problem and tried it yourself and gracious of you to apologise. For my part I also apologise to you for the terseness of my reply, not appropriate but frustration overcame me. I guess it is not dissimilar to the Cuban missile crisis :). And you have saved me some work as I downloaded the latest software yesterday and was going to test it today thinking that maybe my problem was a 14.01 thing and it had been corrected in the later releases.

It just shows that different uses of the software can cause misunderstanding. How many people multiple print a "large" number of copies - using nylon - using print one at a time? Not very many I suspect, indeed maybe only one!

 

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