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monika-twigg

What is NovoMaker?

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Am I being a bit slow here?

You send the STL from the cloud directly to the printer. But my UM2 only prints via the SD card. A missing link here then!

Since UM say that you should only really print via the SD card and not directly by cable, I have never tried this method.

There are many online prints that require the addition of support prior to printing. For example I am working on Left Shark right now. His fins will not print on their own.

Also, I don't think that I want to tie up my computer and slow down the internet stream for the hours that some prints take. I have pretty good broad band, but the children would notice and complain while gaming or watching films.

So overall I think I will be ignoring this site.

 

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Actually, just after the printing start, it will not take any broadband width to stream data from the internet. Even you stop Internet connection during the printing process, the printing still goes on normally. Thank you very much for pointing out this misunderstanding. We could make this video more clear later :)

About addition support prior to printing, our platform will generate support and do slicing after user finish settings.

I can understand that it's not as convenient as SD card printing. The reason why we make it this way is to protect the designer's copyright. The patient you spend for this inconvenience right now contributes to the intercellular property protection and sustainable development for 3D printing design.

I really appreciate your ideas. You will not regret a visit later :p

Monika

 

Am I being a bit slow here?

You send the STL from the cloud directly to the printer. But my UM2 only prints via the SD card. A missing link here then!

Since UM say that you should only really print via the SD card and not directly by cable, I have never tried this method.

There are many online prints that require the addition of support prior to printing. For example I am working on Left Shark right now. His fins will not print on their own.

Also, I don't think that I want to tie up my computer and slow down the internet stream for the hours that some prints take. I have pretty good broad band, but the children would notice and complain while gaming or watching films.

So overall I think I will be ignoring this site.

 

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If I understand this right.... ?

This is like http://www.thingiverse.com/

and https://www.youmagine.com/

which are both free...

But if I used NovoMaker... I'd have to pay per print, have my UM2 tethered to my PC which in turn would have to remain on throughout the entire print duration, while also needing to remain connected to the internet for however long it took the print I've purchased to complete?

Why would I want to do any of this? :???:

 

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ChrisR,

I'm not rendering an opinion on this but just playing devil's advocate.

You are looking at this from the wrong side of the equation as a consumer of the models. This model is really oriented towards content producers (modelers that are doing it for profit).

Some might argue that the consumer also benefit from this too.

Here's how:

Let's say there is a copyrighted character, let's call him Ronny Rat. Now Mick... err.. Ronny is always licensed and his copyright owner, Wisney, aggressively protects Ronny's likeness by suing or otherwise legally preventing anyone else from making Ronny's likeness available as a model even if it's for free.

So without these type of business models (DRM), Wisney has no motivation to legitimately (based on their copyright) provide a model for free and they "take down" anyone else that tries to do it. So the net of it is that you can't get a Ronny model unless you model it yourself (and people like me don't have the artistic abilities to do it), you don't get to print Ronny for you keychain or whatever. Also remember that you can go to the Wisney park and buy the key chain so by NOT defending/preventing the use of Ronny's likeness, Wisney sees it as losing money.

Now a site like this comes along and says to Wisney, if you use our site we will protect your intellectual property and allow you to make money from it (while we take a small slice too). This gives Wisney enough motivation to provide a very nice, high quality model for a price.

Now someone willing to pay for the official Dalt Wisney Ronny the Rat model can get it whereas without this "necessary" evil, Ronny wouldn't be available to print.

Again, I'm just pointing this out. I'm not implying that I support it. I make my (low quality, lame or otherwise of limited use) models available for free and it a model only exists through some purchase I just go without using it.

 

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Hi, ChrisR. You don't pay for print, you pay for print right which means it's like appstore, you buy the app, you use it for lifetime. And just after the print start, internet connection is not required during the printing process.

Thank you for point it out which we didn't make it so clear. :) comments are welcomed. comments that helped us can win giveaways :p

 

If I understand this right.... ?

This is like http://www.thingiverse.com/

and https://www.youmagine.com/

which are both free...

But if I used NovoMaker... I'd have to pay per print, have my UM2 tethered to my PC which in turn would have to remain on throughout the entire print duration, while also needing to remain connected to the internet for however long it took the print I've purchased to complete?

Why would I want to do any of this? :???:

 

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I can understand that it's not as convenient as SD card printing. The reason why we make it this way is to protect the designer's copyright.

 

It's not that hard to remesh a 3D model from GCode. Maybe I should write something in my spare time someday just to prove a point here.

That aside. I'm not convinced that 3D printer users are waiting for this.

Finally. Make sure you understand the CuraEngine license. As from the settings shown I deduce that you are most likely using this to slice. And the AGPL is chosen to prevent engine changes to be locked behind remote services.

 

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This is going to take all of 10 minutes to hack and rip the gcode right off the Arduino. So I for one would not trust this for a second with my IP if I was concerned about it.

Secondly, there are very few designers around compared to the rest of the world's population. Most of the new, upcoming breed of designers are being fed a steady diet of open-source and free distribution of IP for non-commercial use. So this site will appeal to a very small niche of designers, who already have various avenues for selling their designs, such as their own paypal-driven websites. And they rely on the buyers to be honest and not distribute their source files. But these are few and far between.

Then you have thingiverse and youmagine which are flooded with so many designs that getting your site noticed is going to be a really tough sell.

So, what the 3D printing revolution is really about is not simply printing, but a change of culture in the distribution of two types of wealth: money, and knowledge. It is a New Economy, a socio-capitalist blend in which the correlation between money and knowledge is much looser, less defined and relies more on people playing nice than enforcing rules. I know how to build a 3D printer, I will tell you how to do it, and if you manufacture one and manage to sell it - good for you. Send me a beer.

This is really set to undermine the stranglehold the vast conglomerates currently have over our economies. By distributing knowledge freely (Ultimaker being a superb example) and allowing everyone to have a go at making money, everyone benefits at some level, and the distribution of knowledge prevents the Makerbots of this world from running off with everyone's pooled knowledge and dominating the market.

Now that I have my political manifesto off my chest, you can understand what I mean when I say your website is Old Economy trying to leverage some money out of the New Economy. It's a good trick if you can do it.

 

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This also raises the question again. Is the design IP, or are prints of the design also IP.

I believe you mentioned, buy once, print as many as you want? What if I print one for friends to giveaway? Or print them to sell?

Right now with the OS NC licenses it's already tough to know whether you can sell a print(your customer also owns the model, and thus he pays you for the equipment, material, time and expertise, not for the model). I wonder how that would be if you payed for the model. Then your customer should also buy the model.

 

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This is going to take all of 10 minutes to hack and rip the gcode right off the Arduino. So I for one would not trust this for a second with my IP if I was concerned about it.

 

To comment a bit more on this. The protection on IP like this is silly. IP is a legal protection, so you should protect it with legal, not with technology.

For example, look at http://www.turbosquid.com/

You can buy 3D models there. You get the actual 3D model, with a certain license. Violate the license and you are in legal problems. Same thing you could do for a 3D printing market place.

Saves the user troubles, saves the site host troubles (no need for cloud based slicing, which is not just a running cost, but also a site design cost)

 

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Cloud based slicing... no thanks.

The way I'm seeing this is an unnecessary/extra layer of obfuscation/complication shoved in between what I want to print and how I'm then permitted printing it. For that reason and the IP issue, as pointed out being better covered through legal means, makes this concept even more of a non-starter (imho)

If a part isn't available, I'll design it myself and slice it with either CURA, S3D or Kiss etc., part of the joys of owning a 3D printer. You retain control of it. :-)

 

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Cloud based slicing makes sense if you can offer the user a superior experience; say waaaaaay faster slicing, and more/cooler options than they would get with CURA or its ilk. In most cases, user who want better/faster/cooler slicing want it on their computer because of irrational reasons, like ChrisR (not saying you are irrational, but you are talking about a "feeling" thing, not something concrete).

It ties in with what I wrote before: the New Economy is about putting things into people's hands, not trying to tie them up in user agreements, paywalls and services they simply have little if any use for.

 

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Wait. Just thought up another "issue". The NovoMaker stuff is webgl, so the WebGL viewer has the model data. This is just javascript in your browser. It would be quite doable to make a greasemonkey script that allows you to save the 3D models from the viewer.

Much easier then rebuilding it from gcode :-)

 

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It ties in with what I wrote before: the New Economy is about putting things into people's hands, not trying to tie them up in user agreements, paywalls and services they simply have little if any use for.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying (just expressed differently) As regards cloud based slicing, or even cloud based compiling, an idea once briefly suggested by a PIC compiler I no longer use (for other reasons) i.e "pay-as-you-compile" Count me well out.

I just don't want to have to be tethered to the internet each time I decide to slice/compile/design/create or print anything. I want those tools, stand-alone, on my machine. :-)

 

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As 3D printer owners we clearly are opposed to this, with our OpenSource ideology and all.

Though designers may at some point start to think differently. I don't see the harm in looking what people come up with as solutions to keeping things closed source. Just being curious :p

I mean if you manage to do it, and do it well, with designers and printer owners both happy, you can make serious money ;)

 

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It seems bizarre to me that someone would start a kickstarter for a closed product like this. I mean some kickstarters are for physical things like arduinos. But the whole community kickstarter seems to go against this kind of thing unless it's a community of designers. So I don't think this kickstarter should appeal to printer owners, but designers.

 

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This is going to take all of 10 minutes to hack and rip the gcode right off the Arduino. So I for one would not trust this for a second with my IP if I was concerned about it.

Secondly, there are very few designers around compared to the rest of the world's population. Most of the new, upcoming breed of designers are being fed a steady diet of open-source and free distribution of IP for non-commercial use. So this site will appeal to a very small niche of designers, who already have various avenues for selling their designs, such as their own paypal-driven websites. And they rely on the buyers to be honest and not distribute their source files. But these are few and far between.

Then you have thingiverse and youmagine which are flooded with so many designs that getting your site noticed is going to be a really tough sell.

So, what the 3D printing revolution is really about is not simply printing, but a change of culture in the distribution of two types of wealth: money, and knowledge. It is a New Economy, a socio-capitalist blend in which the correlation between money and knowledge is much looser, less defined and relies more on people playing nice than enforcing rules. I know how to build a 3D printer, I will tell you how to do it, and if you manufacture one and manage to sell it - good for you. Send me a beer.

This is really set to undermine the stranglehold the vast conglomerates currently have over our economies. By distributing knowledge freely (Ultimaker being a superb example) and allowing everyone to have a go at making money, everyone benefits at some level, and the distribution of knowledge prevents the Makerbots of this world from running off with everyone's pooled knowledge and dominating the market.

Now that I have my political manifesto off my chest, you can understand what I mean when I say your website is Old Economy trying to leverage some money out of the New Economy. It's a good trick if you can do it.

 

Well, good thought, I'm a open-source favorer. But what you favor may mislead your cognition on it.

 

Being fed a steady diet of open-source couldn't mean that the most designers will hold an attitude of exclusion on close-source site. Relatively, they need a close-source site to consummate 3D print market. And this quantity might far larger then your thought. You are not sure about it, me either.

 

Not every 3D printer user have enough patience and interests to get knowledge on this area. They just need a easy-touch product.So open-source and close-source is not a conflict existence, but to serve different needs. The fact is, market rules are compliecated, not growing that ideal as we thought.

 

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The only way to make a DRM system work is to actually build it into the printer's hardware.

You'd need to replace the Arduino platform with a platform that connects to your cloud system, downloads an encrypted package containing the sliced model. Then decrypt it on the printer and print it.

That platform would need to be very well built in order to not be hackable. Then, you just need to give people a reason to buy that platform. Maybe as Apple how they do that :D

I'm not suggesting to actually do that - my point is that it's pointless to do that and if there was a printer with such a platform, I wouldn't buy it and tell all my friends not to buy it.

/edit:

I know it would be useful to have such a platform for professional designers to sell their superior products for 3D printing. But I'd rather have them come closer to the open source ideal than the open source 3D printing world to come closer to DRM.

 

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Brilliant :p

Thank you.

 

The only way to make a DRM system work is to actually build it into the printer's hardware.

You'd need to replace the Arduino platform with a platform that connects to your cloud system, downloads an encrypted package containing the sliced model. Then decrypt it on the printer and print it.

That platform would need to be very well built in order to not be hackable. Then, you just need to give people a reason to buy that platform. Maybe as Apple how they do that :D

I'm not suggesting to actually do that - my point is that it's pointless to do that and if there was a printer with such a platform, I wouldn't buy it and tell all my friends not to buy it.

/edit:

I know it would be useful to have such a platform for professional designers to sell their superior products for 3D printing. But I'd rather have them come closer to the open source ideal than the open source 3D printing world to come closer to DRM.

 

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