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twilde

Adhesion problems after UM2+ Upgrade

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Howdy fellow makers! I've recently upgraded an Ultimaker2 to an Ultimaker2+ with the official kit, and ever since the upgrade, we've been having nothing but problems with bed adhesion and curling. We're printing with PLA, with the new UM2+ firmware installed from Cura 15.04.6, but the "usual" 210C/60C head/bed temps for PLA just aren't working.

The only thing I've found so far that seems to help with first-layer problems is ratcheting the bed way up to 85C - this at least allows the first layer to come out smooth, whereas at 60C it seems like the head is constantly running over the previous row with every row of fill it prints. But this isn't perfect, and we're still getting curling sometimes later in the print, depending on the shape. I've tried ramping the fan down, which helps at least somewhat with the curling at later layers, but it just seems... way different than it ever behaved before.

Has anyone else had this type of problem with a UM2+, either upgraded or stock? Any other ideas of things to try? Thanks!

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Hi @Twilde, welcome to the forums! :)

Do you have some pictures from what your first layers look like?

Both successful and unsuccessful?

Probably stating the obvious here, but have you releveled your bed after the upgrade? Because it has the Olsson block installed, it can be that the nozzle is at a slightly different height than it was before.

Have you also cleaned it real good with hot water and even alcohol?

Besides that, it shouldn't really affect the bed adhesion. The PT100 in your printhead has changed, so your previous 210ºC might be different from your current reading. How does the rest of your print look like? OK, or under extruded?

If the rest doesn't look as good either, you could also try to up the temperature by 5/10ºC.

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Thanks for the reply.

I've uploaded some photos of first layer fun at https://goo.gl/photos/JrSexQV8pC7APQfa7 - you can see some in-progress where the print head appears to be running over the layers it just put down.

I've definitely leveled the bed (several times, at various different levels) and cleaned the bed with hot water and Windex (ammonia-based glass cleaner). This has always been our process in the past without problems.

Increasing and decreasing the nozzle temperature made no difference; I varied 10C +/- from 210C on the blue print in the album, in 5C increments, with no visible difference.

Varying the bed temperature, which has worked previously, is actually having negative effects now; in the last grey print in the album that was varied up from 60C to 80C with a stop at 70C without any real impact (other than it getting worse at the end).

Any other ideas? Thanks!

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HI;

that head is too close to the plate. that needs to change first. the first layer needs to be smooth, there is now too much material extruded causing it to ripple.

as far as adhesion, the glass plate, when cleaned properly, should not adhere well to PLA. you should put on a very very small layer of Tesa Eco Stick. that will resolve your issue

the bed should be 60 degrees, and the temp for the nozzle should be 10 degrees higher than before if you were using 210 before, use 220 now.

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Hi,

I have had this exact same problem.  Since I upgraded my UM2 to a UM2+ I have had really bad adhesion with PLA since the upgrade.  Before I had sweet adhesion, i never had to use any glue or rafts, now after the upgrade i pretty much have to use glue and rafts all the time, and sometimes that still doesn't work.

I have tried making the bed hotter and playing with temperatures and speeds but nothing seems to improve it.

The side on view shows the bottom face is all wobbly where it has started pulling away.

20170202_082847.thumb.jpg.4865d321c964d9c4edbebcc2f082fbf7.jpg[/media]20170202_082916.thumb.jpg.e1584d253d8a2e57280cd65400f41cd4.jpg

20170202_082847.thumb.jpg.4865d321c964d9c4edbebcc2f082fbf7.jpg

20170202_082916.thumb.jpg.e1584d253d8a2e57280cd65400f41cd4.jpg

Edited by Guest

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Hi Wishbone, thank you for your feedback.

I'm sorry to hear you seem to have more difficulties getting your prints to stick and stay flat after you have done the upgrade.

Bed leveling should have remained the same, so I doubt anything changed in that area. You did replace your printhead, and your new printhead has a more accurate PT100 (temperature readings), more powerful cartridge heater and maybe you are using different nozzle sizes?

It could be that what once was 210ºC for you, in 'reality' was 200ºC if your PT100 was not 100% accurate. So I would try to forget your old profiles, and move forward and react upon what your first layer looks like.

What are the settings you are currently playing around with?

Is your first layer squashed in the bed?

Do you use any adhesives?

Looking forward hearing from you!

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Also, did you touch the glass after doing the um2+ upgrade? Sounds silly, but can happen, the grease from shafts, bearings, any other part you could have touch, is a very thin thin and sticky material. I would take the glass out and clean it with a smooth sponge. @gr5 has a very good video showing how to leave a good-as-new-glass video

Edited by Guest
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His video is excellent

I bought some 10 ounce "squeeze" bottles from the hobby store, the nozzle unscrews and the tip has a removable plug. I bought some Elmer's Wood Glue and did the 1:10 ratio with water he suggests. Shake shake shake, apply to a freshly cleaned bed, spread around with a brush, heat bed and it dries up nicely.

My prints are adhering really well and it's really nice to retire the glue stick!

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Hi SandervG

I am still using a 0.40mm nozzle, so no change there.

Since the upgrade I pretty much always use a glue stick applied to the glass bed before i print.  And any big print like the one in the photo i always clean the glass with some dishwasher soap, let it dry and then add the glue stick.

The settings i use,  both before and after:

Material : PLA

Layer Height :0.25mm

T Build Platform : 60

T Extruder : 205

Cooling: Layer 0 - Fan Speed

Cooling: Layer 2 - 100 Fan Speed.

Print Speed : 2500mm/min

I have tried increasing build platform T, but this did not work.  I tried lower the fan speed for the first few layers as i thought with the new fan ducts on the upgrade kit it might be cooling too fast, but this did not work.

I calibrate the Nozzle height using the calibration card that came with the upgrade kit, and now since the upgrade i always use a glue stick.

I will try increasing the Extruder temperature to 215 and brave up and get my nozzle to touch the build platform when calibrating and see how it goes.

neotko -  I always try to make sure my build platform is always clean before a big print like the one in the photo so i don't think there is any grease on the glass.

Thanks for all the advice, ill give it try and let you.  And nice video gr5.

Edited by Guest

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So 41mm/sec X .4mm nozzle X .25 layer height is 4mm^3/sec which is a little too fast for 205C. I would go to 230C (which I've done on many prints) if you want to print at that kind of volume. Otherwise you will get a bit of underextrusion.

Not sure if this is related to your sticking problem though - for that just move the bed a little closer to the nozzle - try 1/3 turn CCW. Also when using glue stick just use half coverage then wet a napkin and spread it around like the video shows.

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Nozzle is too close to bed. If you fitted a new nozzle, which you did, then very likely that your nozzle to bed distance will have changed - no reason why the level of your bed would have changed, it probably is exactly the same as before the upgrade.

If I change a nozzle I always recalibrate the distance.

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Okay thanks everyone for the advice.

It seems the following changes seemed to have solved the problem for me:

1) Getting the nozzle as close as possible to the bed

2) Setting the Extruder temp to 215

Also my prints still easily pop off once the bed has cooled down so no problem getting them.

Thanks again

Adam

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