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Tiger91

Filament being ground down on new UM3

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Hello UM community,

I started using my UM3 on Friday. In the past few days my filament got ground down to the point that it became blocked and the print failed.

This is more failure occurrences than my Robo R1 (which was 1/4 the cost). Has anyone else had this problem, and how do you fix it? Attached is a picture for reference. 5a33280f28e08_Filamentjam.thumb.jpg.e31334e6f3713c1fdaf5590f9521948d.jpg

Thanks

5a33280f28e08_Filamentjam.thumb.jpg.e31334e6f3713c1fdaf5590f9521948d.jpg

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This is a spin-out of the filament in the drive due to a block in the print core. I would suggest raising the temperature of the print core and try pushing the filament either manually or loading in a cleaning filament and letting it purge. If this doesn't work you'll have to clean the print core manually or swap print cores. Once the print core is clear, then snip off the filament that has already gone through the drive and re-load and purge. Make sure your temperature settings are correct for the filament. I had this happen to me right out of the box and this is what I did to correct it. I have 14 years of experience in working with FDM machines professionally.

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Printjobs with a lot of retraction can cause this problem.

Also there is a way to release tension in the feeder by tightening the small top screw on the feeder, this could help too...

 

I think it was the tension that was too high. I reduced it by a significant amount and it seems to work ok now.

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There is an indicator on the feeder that shows the tension setting. For all standard materials it should be in the middle position.

The picture shows I think regular Ultimaker silver PLA. If you had to set the feeder tension to something else than the middle position, something else is wrong. Your reseller will be able to help you.

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There is an indicator on the feeder that shows the tension setting. For all standard materials it should be in the middle position.

The picture shows I think regular Ultimaker silver PLA. If you had to set the feeder tension to something else than the middle position, something else is wrong. Your reseller will be able to help you.

I've had to set it to the least tension (white bar at the very top).

Even then there's still some grinding.

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There is something wrong then.

If you provide some extra info we may be able to help you.

Erin has already asked the most important questions.

Retractions, however, are no issue. The whole system can easily do extreme amount of retractions, we have done numerous torture tests on this.

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The whole system can easily do extreme amount of retractions, we have done numerous torture tests on this.

On that I strongly disagree. In all my tests it failed to deliver clean retractions when they are concentrated on a short period of time. Even so, after not touching Cura settings the amount of filament grind was too much to the point of designing a um3 to bondtech feeder to be able to use retractions freely without any issue.

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well that is strange.

Our torture test is printing a cube with around 400 separate hollow cyclinders. the cube is around 10*10*10cm, and takes a few days (3? 5? I'm not sure) to print.

Between every cylinder, the filament is retracted, so there is about 1 retraction per second, for days in a row. If we print this cylinder at 0.06mm layerheight, the amount of retractions is huge. And the amount of retractions per mm of filament is unrealistically high.

We have spent a lot of manyears engineering to get this absolutely problem free.

So therefore I dare say: retractions are very very very reliable in a UM printer.

However: this is tested within certain bounderies. We tested with Ultimaker materials. We tested with Ultimaker Cura printing profiles. We tested between 15 and 40 degC. Etc etc.

Maybe you print outside these boundaries. I think you have really tuned your prints on high speed and high flow. Maybe the feeder forces in your circumstances are therefore outside the range we tested.

Edited by Guest

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Yea I seen the retraction tests on the UM offices. But after many many tests I had to change the feeder on my um3 because I wasnt able to print my keychains, that need 1.5k retractions in 25minutes.

Well Indeed I have tune my machines to print fast, reliable and with as much quality possible on the shortest amount of time. That need's a very fine tuned machine.

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Maybe you print outside these boundaries.

 

This is particularly interesting. What are the 'boundaries'? The advertised max speed on the specifications of the machine or the settings made in cura?

Also, as I understand 3d printing is about getting rid of limits. And IMO the amount of retractions are one, a big one. Also forgot to mention that all the test I did while on beta where using UM materials.

As soon as I moved all to a custom core 1.75 and a bondtech feeder and some other mods I documented step by step, the machine was able to work, IMO, as it should.

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A few examples of the boundaries we tested with are in my post. I think in this case, the relevant boundary is that we tested with the Cura profiles.

The point I am trying to make, is that we have gone to great lengths to test retractions. I am therefore convinced that our printer will perform very good in this respect in most cases it is used for.

Anyone is free to push the limits. I'm glad you have pushed the limits. You went beyond the limits of your stock UM printer, by upgrading the feeder (and maybe more).

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I wasnt able to print my keychains, that need 1.5k retractions in 25minutes.

 

LOL. I had to calculate that. That's 10 retracts per seconds average .... serious? You are an exceptional user :)

I'm using 5 um+ feeders atm (on 3 printers) and never ever have any grinding issues... but I have to admit I'm not pushing any speed limits. Maybe a bontech (I have 1) has its benefits in a specific use case but for most users it's really unnecessary imho... and on normal use the driving teeth get polluted by fillament.

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I wasnt able to print my keychains, that need 1.5k retractions in 25minutes.

 

LOL. I had to calculate that. That's 10 retracts per seconds average .... serious? You are an exceptional user :)

I'm using 5 um+ feeders atm (on 3 printers) and never ever have any grinding issues... but I have to admit I'm not pushing any speed limits. Maybe a bontech (I have 1) has its benefits in a specific use case but for most users it's really unnecessary imho... and on normal use the driving teeth get polluted by fillament.

 

Yea pretty serious. Most of them occurs at the last 10-13 minutes. Is the only way to get clean and nice looking fonts. Also wipe+retract at the end of each loop to hide the z scar and retractions at z change. Retractions are very useful to remove pressure on bowden and cut down the blobs from the accumulated pressure of extruding.

But ofc I'm removing all my bowdens atm :)

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There is something wrong then.

If you provide some extra info we may be able to help you.

Erin has already asked the most important questions.

Retractions, however, are no issue. The whole system can easily do extreme amount of retractions, we have done numerous torture tests on this.

 

I've been working on this printer trying different configurations. Most recently, I've been having lots of trouble with official UM red PLA. I print using standard settings in Cura/S3D (200 degrees C). I've done multiple cleans, but no matter what the heads seem to keep getting clogged up, which likely helps cause the issues with retraction/grinding/stopping. Are the heads supposed to jam after switching filaments a few times? The first hour tends to print beautifully but no matter how much I clean my UM3 is susceptible to clogs. Should I raise the temperature? How do I prevent the clogs while keeping good precision?

IMO the design seems wonky - my Robo R1 has been around for almost 2 years and there have been ZERO clogs like what I've seen on my much more expensive UM3.

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Hi @Tiger91, thank you for your feedback.

Going back to basics, could you set your feeder to the recommended tension (middle), use your Ultimaker red PLA and use a default profile from Cura 2.4?

Could you include a photo of the model you are trying to print?

Is it old or relatively new PLA?

Have you tried different materials, to rule out you might be dealing with a bad reel of filament (if so, would be unfair to blame the printer).

Are you using your AA print core for PLA Red? AA for PLA / Nylon / ABS etc and BB is for PVA.

The print core is not suppose to jam and should be pretty reliable. I am pretty sure we can help diagnose what is not working as it should in your case, but we need some more information to do so.

Looking forward to hear from you.

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Hi @Tiger91, thank you for your feedback.

Going back to basics, could you set your feeder to the recommended tension (middle), use your Ultimaker red PLA and use a default profile from Cura 2.4?

Could you include a photo of the model you are trying to print?

Is it old or relatively new PLA?

Have you tried different materials, to rule out you might be dealing with a bad reel of filament (if so, would be unfair to blame the printer).

Are you using your AA print core for PLA Red? AA for PLA / Nylon / ABS etc and BB is for PVA.

The print core is not suppose to jam and should be pretty reliable. I am pretty sure we can help diagnose what is not working as it should in your case, but we need some more information to do so.

Looking forward to hear from you.

 

Hi - to answer your questions, I use Cura 2.4.0 on default for extruder 1, slight mods to extruder 2 when using PVA.

I always use my AA print core, and have had grinding issues with multiple colors of filament.  

My filament is brand new, less than a week old and straight from the supplier.

I clean the nozzles and feeding tubes frequently using the atomic method and compressed air (though I wouldn't think I should have to after every few prints).

Ive had the trouble with a few types of prints, from Benchy to a platform jack to a Star Trek spaceship.

Edited by Guest

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What default profile do you use and what are your slight mods for PVA?

From which supplier do you get your filament?

 

I usually use normal or fast when printing.

My PVA mods are usually to change the support density by a few % points, and have an extra layer of 100% infill dense interfaces.

I get my filament from 3D universe, either official UM3 filament or colorfabb.

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Ok

So you use quality filament. The most relevant thing is that it needs to be 2.85 mm. If it's collorfab or um or makerpoint etc is irrelevant.

Let's try to find your issue. I say it's either the feeder or the core or the bowden.

You should have 2 AA cores. Use them both on the left and both on the right and tell us if it made a difference. Are the bowden's ok? No damage anywhere? You get check them by disconnecting them from the head and manually pushing fillament thru them to feel if the is any extra resistance.

Another thing. If you do a cold pull what does the tip off the pla comming out look like? Did you try on both the AA cores and compare? Pictures could help here...

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In addition to @ultiarjan's post I can say that the resistance in the bowden tube of newly unpacked machines is a bit higher due to small curvatures of the bowden coming from the packaging. If there is a hard bend in it, it has to be replaced. Otherwise it will get better with time and can be worked-around by increasing the pressure inside the feeder for a limited time.

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Ok

So you use quality filament. The most relevant thing is that it needs to be 2.85 mm. If it's collorfab or um or makerpoint etc is irrelevant.

Let's try to find your issue. I say it's either the feeder or the core or the bowden.

You should have 2 AA cores. Use them both on the left and both on the right and tell us if it made a difference. Are the bowden's ok? No damage anywhere? You get check them by disconnecting them from the head and manually pushing fillament thru them to feel if the is any extra resistance.

Another thing.  If you do a cold pull what does the tip off the pla comming out look like? Did you try on both the AA cores and compare? Pictures could help here...

 

Hi,

First, I only use 2.85 mm filament.

I've been doing some testing, and it seems like the bowden tube doesn't have issues. The past two prints have come out great - an 8 hour one had no issues after I cleaned the extruder, but I don't know if the grinding will continue.

I'll do a cold pull later and upload some photos, but I would bet its the extruder or the feeder (or both)

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