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sanjay-e3d

E3D All Metal Hotend for Ultimaker

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Jonny is apparently going with the switched out 24V E3D heater, thermister and in general the standard E3D V6 design.

 

That's right. I'm planning to switch to another electronics platform (Megatronics V3) running entirely off 24V. This will be documented as well with my "UM Black Edition". Timescale on this project is at least 6 weeks, because I have to wait 5 weeks for the frame material to arrive...

The printed tube cutter should work just as well as a regular one.. All you need is a very sharp blade, like a surgical scalpel. (You're gonna need one of these for my v6 mount anyways ;)).

 

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I tried printing my modified "Foley" design yesterday and found -

- It's really hard to print and became unstuck 5mm before completion.

- The heatsink fan shroud is too low and less than 1mm away from the heater block.

- The "print cooling shroud" is not going to work with the UM block :-(

I will need to adjust.

Mental note: Make a copy of the object before adding rounds and chamfers in DSM....

 

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That's bad luck :(

My original Foley Design wouldn't have gotten past the first 20mm height, but I stuck it down with blue tape while it printed. It failed again just before the upper bearing hole...

I didn't want to print it again with support, it would probably have worked with support, but then I read that the new push-fit couplers don't fit Nick's design anyways.

 

...

Mental note: Make a copy of the object before adding rounds and chamfers in DSM....

 

Don't mention that with Sketchup! You have to manually redraw EVERY line in order to get rid of the chamfers, then alter the design, then remodel the chamfers...

My first version of the v6 mount is printing right now. It's a lot better and simpler than the v5 mount, because I use the blue fanduct. Needs some tuning (I forgot to raise the fanduct) but it will probably be ready for publishing by the end of the week.

Btw Andi, if you need someone to print the mount for you - I can offer to print the mount and supply the necessary screws. But I'm in Switzerland, so shipping will take a few days.

 

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That's right. I'm planning to switch to another electronics platform (Megatronics V3) running entirely off 24V. This will be documented as well with my "UM Black Edition". Timescale on this project is at least 6 weeks, because I have to wait 5 weeks for the frame material to arrive...

The printed tube cutter should work just as well as a regular one.. All you need is a very sharp blade, like a surgical scalpel. (You're gonna need one of these for my v6 mount anyways ;)).

If i dont mentioned about 24v heater , they sent me 12v one? is it possible to use with ultimaker? Live too far away so the delivery took me 3 weeks(

 

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@Jonny: This would be the best possible scenario I can think of! Very nice offer of yours. My girlfriend is in Zürich next weekend, so maybe we can save shipping costs by mailing it to a swiss address of a friend of mine :smile:. Just let me know what I can transfer to your account as a beer donation ;)

Newbie Question: What happens if one would use the UM1 cartridge in combination with the E3D heater block or the other way around? They have a different voltage but isn't the power output controlled by the mainboard anyway? (my understanding of electronics is almost null - I prefer 1 & 0) :smile:

 

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That sounds perfect! The mount won't fit into a regular letter, and shipping a parcel to Germany costs more than its contents...

I just got the v6 mount to fit nicely. Now I have to improve the fanduct mount and make the small parts (TC amp board, wire fixings, push-fit coupler ring).

In theory, the UM + E3D combinations works just fine. In practice, there might be problems with the heater block not being exactly the same size as the E3D. Nick's fanduct is very close to the heater block - it might melt from the larger UM block. (It might just as well melt from the E3D block...).

That's the thing I haven't tested yet. At the moment I have a "never touch a running system" problem: My UM works for now, so I have to think twice before I take it apart and mount the E3D hotend. I'm building up a second printer, but that will take some more weeks.

I'll probably just hook up the E3D hotend and run it for some time without actually mounting it inside the printer.

 

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I can definitively tell you the the UM1 block won't work with Nick's design. It's not a matter of melting. It is major interference. It would be nearly impossible to assemble the head with Nick's fan duct and the UM1 alu block.

However, I think Andi's question was can the heater "core" from the UM1 be used in the E3D block. I will be able to tell you that answer tomorrow as I have a heater "core" from UM being delivered today.

As far as using the E3D 12V heater core, the problem is, as Jonny mentioned, the heater will see nearly three times it's rated power.

While it's true that power will be "throttled" when the nozzle is at the set point and only see a modest amount of average power, during heat up, the firmware will switch the heater "full on" delivering the 108 watts. The element inside the heater will quickly heat up but the rest of the element and block will take time.

If it was a little more power, it probably wouldn't be a problem for the heating element. However, at nearly three times the, that heating element is going to be blistering hot possibly to the point of burning out or igniting something inside the core.

And I haven't even mentioned that the UM1's controller shield probably can't deliver the kind of current required for the 12V version. There is also the problem that the UM1's PS is I believe about 130 watts. During heat up, the heater will draw most of that power leaving about 22W. That is probably enough to run the rest but you are getting close....

One possible way to use the 12V heater is to change the maximum PWM used by the firmware. This would prevent the "full on" situation or rather it would limit the full on duration to that of the PWM width. Because the PWM is done fairly fast, the heater will see more of an average and not really the full 108 watts. However, there is still the problem of the board and power supply sourcing the 108W for a brief moment but it might be OK.

The problem (as I believe Jonny pointed out earlier in this thread), you need to limit the PWM so much that there might be a problem in the resolution when it gets to the set point. The PWM value runs from 0 - 255 (0 = off, 255 = full on). To adjust this to limit the power, it needs to limit the on time to 40 / 108 or 37%. This would be done by setting the max PWM to 37% of 255 or about 95. This means that where the firmware originally had 255 power levels to regulate the temp at the set point, it would now only have 95. Might work OK but you would be in uncharted territory.

 

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Oh right, of course he meant it that way *stupid face*.

The UM cartridge does fit into the E3D heater block, but it's considerably longer than the E3D cartridge. So it will protrude about 3-4 mm on each side of the heater block. There, it will get very close to Nick's fanduct which might melt because of that.

But if you're using the E3D heater block, you will have to use the E3D thermistor (The thermocouple sensor definetly doesn't fit the E3D block). That means you will have to change your firmware. *

At that point, you can also just use the 24V E3D cartridge - it's shorter than the UM one.

*: Except if you can drill a hole into the E3D block in order to fit the thermocouple sensor. I have no idea which is the best solution for measurement accuracy. I can say that the E3D thermistor is simpler to install and use (BUT you have to switch to a custom firmware), and the measurement accuracy will be okay with both sensors.

 

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With no PEEK or PTFE in hot regions of our HotEnd we can reach 300C with the supplied thermistor. By swapping a thermistor for a thermocouple (may require additional electronics) you can reach over 400C.

 

From: http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6/v6-3mm-Bowden

So yes, the thermocouple generally has a greater temperature range, but nothing interesting for plastic extrusion...

I believe polycarbonate is the highest temperature extruding plastic I've seen to date, and that was 280°C iirc.

Another thing is, I "think" the thermocouple is more accurate in theory, but also more difficult to read properly. So I can't say which sensor is more accurate in the end - it depends on how good the Arduino reads them.

 

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I plan to buy the full v6 kit but I'll probably use the UM block + TC.

But I'm still have no idea how to plug the power for the small hotend fan.

Do I connect it directly to the screw terminal on the PCB? But for what I could gather around here, this is 19v straight from the power supply, and the fan is 12v, it doesn't look right.

What are the options?

 

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I plan to buy the full v6 kit but I'll probably use the UM block + TC.

But I'm still have no idea how to plug the power for the small hotend fan.

Do I connect it directly to the screw terminal on the PCB? But for what I could gather around here, this is 19v straight from the power supply, and the fan is 12v, it doesn't look right.

What are the options?

 

E3D put quite some work into the v6 block, so going with the standard UM block would in my opinion be a bit of a shame... Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, the v6 block is quite big compared to the E3D one, and so, has difficulty fitting with the current E3D air duct designs.. Actually, I dont think there are really any mounts and ducts specifically designed for the v6 yet apart from Johnnys, and I believe he uses Nick Foleys duct?

The small fan on the hotend needs to be ALWAYS ON, so dont wire it up with the hotend fan, which you will typically (or at least can have) off for the first few layers... I would wire it up with the electronics fan, which I believe runs 12V and is always ON

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WARNING... I don't believe connecting the small fan to the fan connector on the UM board is appropriate.

The little fan is 12V and the fan connector is 19.5 volts (the supply voltage.

 

The hotend fan output... yes...

But as I wrote, at least my electronics fan runs 12V...

Its a 1.5.4 board, and has 3 fan "ports" at 12V, FAN1, FAN2, FAN3.

I have the electronics fan connected to FAN3, draw 12V for my UltiController to work without USB connection from FAN2, which leaves FAN1 free for the small fan on the E3D hotend...

UM Electronics 1.5.4, fan outputs

 

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Without flipping the printer over and looking and just going by the schematic, board layout and (worse) memory, those fan connectors don't exist on 1.5.7.

Looks like they were there in 1.5.3

http://reprap.org/wiki/Ultimaker%27s_v1.5.3_PCB

Then were remove apparently in 1.5.4

http://reprap.org/wiki/Ultimaker%27s_v1.5.4_PCB

Not sure why your 1.5.4 still has them but I'm pretty sure the 1.5.7 version I have doesn't have them.

 

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This is the V6 version I'm working on which is a slightly modified version of Nick Foley's V5 hot end.

The model is shown with the UM block. You can see where it interferes with the fan duct. To the left is the E3D block. The biggest problem isn't the size of the UM block. The issue is the centered hole for the nozzle. The E3D block has the nozzle pushed to one end which allows the bulk of the block to stick outside the fan duct.

 

V6 mount 1

V6 mount 2

V6 mount 3

 

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Without flipping the printer over and looking and just going by the schematic, board layout and (worse) memory, those fan connectors don't exist on 1.5.7.

Looks like they were there in 1.5.3

http://reprap.org/wiki/Ultimaker's_v1.5.3_PCB

Then were remove apparently in 1.5.4

http://reprap.org/wiki/Ultimaker's_v1.5.4_PCB

Not sure why your 1.5.4 still has them but I'm pretty sure the 1.5.7 version I have doesn't have them.

 

Alright.. I just re-checked, and my board does say 1.5.4 on it... Maybe its an early one ;)

EDIT: Looking closely at the picture of the 1.5.4 board on the wiki, it has the ports as well, they are just hiding under the bend down IC1 7812 regulator...

Pictures on the pages for the 1.5.6 and 1.5.7 boards are actually of the 1.5.4 board as well, soI dont know about those...

Still the 1.5.7 board must have some 12V? Maybe just one port for the electronics fan?

Could't it just be split to connect the E3D hotend fan there as well?

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There is 12V on the board and it goes to power the Arduino. There isn't any filtering on the regulator so hopefully the Arduino filters the line well and the fan doesn't generate a lot of noise.

The 12V going to the Arduino is shown here:

V6 mount 12 V

I'll probably tap off of the VIN and GND right next to it for the fan shown on the edge of the board.

 

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