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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

Have a brand new Ultimaker 3 for sale. It has zero 'Prints' through it, and I say zeero prints because it has never successfully printed....anything other than silly string...

 

My company purchased 3 of these things brand new and they are all utterly useless. Never have gotten a single successful print off of any one of these machines. Have tried no less than 10 times this weekend alone to print just one part... with no success. (and yes I do know exactly what I'm doing) Have been through the manual, configured the machine with the latest firmware, ensured it was properly set up as best as possible and...it makes silly string. Have a Form 2 that produces flawless, superior professional prints with about a 98% success rate. There is no excuse for this kind of frustration.

 

So anyway - I'm entertaining any reasonable offers for anyone who might like to take this pile off my hands - the sooner the better. If no one wants it, it's either going to be packed full of tannerite and shot at, or thrown delightfully in the dumpster in short order. And to think these go for as much as a FormLabs machine - incredible!! - Glad I didn't pay for it is all I have to say, or I'd be even more pissed than I already am. I really do hate this thing....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

If the machine is not working as it should be you can just send it back to ultimaker right?

they could take a look at it or might refund the money.

 

If you are going to dump/explode it you can also send it to me.  😉 🤔

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

Can’t send it back. $2500 and it’s all yours! 😉 I have to at least try and sell it first before I murder it.

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

To any potential buyers: These machines *can* produce successful prints.  I have a UM3 that works just fine and I know dozens of people who also have them.   If you buy this machine and have trouble getting it working, just post here in the forum for help and advice to get off to a good start.  My guess is the original owner had trouble with parts not sticking to the bed which is easy to fix but that's just a guess.

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

This printer shipped in January of 2017 and I cannot find any support tickets for that serial number. If you change your mind, I'd be happy to assist you. I have no idea if you have ever asked your reseller or Support for help. Please let me know if either didn't. 

Ultimaker North America Support
https://ultimakernasupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

If it is a "brand new" printer from 2017(?), maybe the filament has just gone bad? It is well known that PLA gets harder and more brittle over time due to internal crystal changes, and PVA absorbs water and then may fail too. Or maybe there is something else you overlooked or were unfamiliar with, for example some settings? Or there might be a manufacturing defect indeed?

 

I would suggest you do a test print, and show *exactly* which settings you used, and show what the results were, both while printing and afterwards, with good close-up photos, and with all the files (STL, project,...). Then maybe people can already diagnose it. It could be something very trivial, hopefully.

 

I have made 1000+ good prints with the previous model (UM2), and I have seen lots of very good models made with UM3 printers. So it should work well, or at least can be made to work well. But settings and characteristics differ a lot from liquid light-curing resin printers. Might be part of the learning curve. We all needed to do several prints before we got the hang of it, and it can be frustrating indeed in the beginning.

 

You should be able to get results similar like these, without problems:

saltmethod3.jpg.b36952a07208ed06aea2e5142716121c.jpg

 

image.jpeg.c289c0b35e451b14bec217cd03c6222a.jpeg

 

 

 

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

To potential buyers again:  A 2 year old UM3 is just fine - it doesn't age if you don't use it.  Just wash the glass thoroughly with glass cleaner.  Yes the filament can get a little more brittle but I've learned to deal with that and regularly use 2 and even 5 year old PLA.

 

Also the PVA will need to be dried but that's easy - put it in a box on the UM3 heated bed, set to 70C, cover in a blanket or towel or something and leave it overnight.  

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

To All:

 

Much appreciate the constructive input. That is part of the reason I posted here.

 

I will post some specific data soon as able, though part of the reason for my frustration is that I dont need this machine to turn into a hobby all of it's own. It should just work for that price point. No service ticket was ever submitted to the reseller or manufacturer - As we initially assumed it to be free of defects. 

 

I have 10+ attempts to print a simple part and the failures range from under extrusion to adhesion problems. Majority of failures have been caused by either feeder chewing through filament - both PVA and ABS - adjusted feeders, but they both still chew through filament randomly. Thought this could be due to old PVA, so changed to a brand new sealed roll - happened again. Had several occurrences of the ABS grinding down also. Have experimented with multiple feeder tension settings, and ensured there is no restriction on the front end or in the tubing. No obstructions there. No dust, no clogged nozzles. Still happening at random.

 

Surprisingly filament adhesion has been the least of the problems - though it has happened at least twice now. Printing with ABS at an extruder temp of 250-260°C, build plate temp 95°C. Even though ABS is reputed to be difficult to print with, this has actually worked quite well for the most part. Havent experienced any warping of ABS with the high temperatures used. However the parts have come neatly loose from the build plate several times. Have not attempted any prints with PLA at this point.

 

I keep the build plate sterile (habit from my SLA machine) Cleaned with 90% alcohol while wearing surgical gloves. I never touch it with bare hands. Using a combination of glue sticks and/or a 1:10 mix of aliphatic resin & water applied with a lint-free cloth. 

 

Build plate is actively leveled before each and every attempt. I have also calibrated it manually with a feeler gauge. No problems there.

 

I will post cura project files used shortly. 

 

Thanks to everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

I've never had any luck with the active leveling, especially right out of the box. Switched to manual leveling and never looked back, once I've dialed it in I relevel once or twice a year and have virtually no failures. Use the Z axis Offset plugin to wteak how much "squish" I want.

ABS is one of the toughest to print as it really likes warp/pop off the plate easily especially if you don't use an enclosure to maintain steady heat.

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

Be aware that ABS/PVA is an experimental material combination. For productive use I would recommend to stick with the non-experimental combinations like ABS/Breakaway.

 

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

When printing ABS I recommend using "abs glue" which is a mixture of abs filament and acetone.  let the acetone dissolve the abs for a while in a sealed container like a glass jar.  Then paint it on the build plate with a paint brush and let it dry.   Almost as good is to use PVA wood glue - just any version of elmer's wood glue mixed with about 10 to 20 parts water.  Paint that on clean glass and turn on heated bed to 100C and it will dry long before temp gets to 100C.

 

Leveling with gauge is not ideal - you want the bottom layer to squish a bit - so I tend to level low.  The harder it squishes the bottom layer, the more it sticks.

 

Regarding underextrusion/grinding this is more complicated as it could be the feeder or many other things.  Unfortunately I have a very long list of things to try and test.  Here's the list (yeah - it's long).  Brittle filament is indeed one of the possibilities.  Printing too fast is another.  I'd start by trying a different core.

 

CAUSES FOR UNDEREXTRUSION ON UM3 AND HOW TO TEST FOR THEM AND REMEDY THEM

As far as underextrusion causes - there's just so damn many.  none of the issues seem to cause more than 20% of problems so you need to know the top 5 issues to cover 75% of the possibilities and 1/4 people still won't have the right issue.  Some of the top issues:
1) Print slower and hotter!  Here are top recommended speeds for .2mm layers (twice as fast for .1mm layers) and .4mm nozzle:
20mm/sec at 200C
30mm/sec at 210C
40mm/sec at 225C
50mm/sec at 240C
The printer can do double these speeds but with huge difficulty and usually with a loss in part quality due to underextrusion.  Different colors print best at quite different temperatures and due to imperfect temp sensors, some printers print 10C cool so use these values as an initial starting guideline and if you are still underextruding try raising the temp.  But don't go over 240C with PLA.

Note that your "print speed" may be 40mm/sec but it may be printing infill at 80mm/sec so CHECK ALL SPEEDS.

2) Line Width larger than nozzle.  In cura 3.X search in settings for all line widths.  If any of them are larger than the nozzle diameter this can cause underextrusion.  There are 8 of these in cura 3.2.1.

3) Curved filament at end of spool - if you are past half way on spool, try a fresh spool as a test.

4) curved angle feeding into feeder - put the filament on the floor -makes a MASSIVE difference.

5) Bad core.  Try a different core.  It could be clogged, or something more complex like the temp sensor in the core.

5a) clogged nozzle - the number one most suspected problem of course.  Sometimes a grain of sand gets in there but that's more obvious (it just won't print).  Atomic method (cold pull) is the cure - from the menu do a few cold pulls.  The result should be filament that is the exact shape of the interior of the nozzle including the tiny passage to the tip of the nozzle.  If it doesn't look like that you need to pull at a colder temperature.  You can do it manually instead of through the menu if it's not working right but learn through the menu initially.  95C is roughly the correct "cold" temperature for PLA.  Higher temps for other filaments. Simpler cold pull (3dsolex cores only - doesn't work on ultimaker cores because you can't remove the nozzle): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u07m3HTNyEg


5b) Temp Sensor bad - even the good ones vary by +/- 5C and bad ones can be any amount off - they usually read high and a working sensor can (rarely) fail high slowly over time.  Meaning the sensor thinks you are at 220C but actually you are at 170C.  At 170C the plastic is so viscous it can barely get out of the nozzle.  You can verify your temp sensor using this simple video at youtube - on you tube search for this: mrZbX-SfftU


6) feeder spring issues - too tight, too loose.  You want the tension such that you can clearly see the diamond pattern biting into the filament.  You want to see at least 2 columns of diamonds.  4 columns is too much.  You usually want the tension in the center.

7) Other feeder issues, one of the nuts holding UM2 and UM3 together often interferes with the feeder motor tilting it enough so that it still works but not very well.  Other things that tilt the feeder motor, sleeve misaligned so it doesn't get a good grip.  Gunk clogging the mechanism in there.

😎 Filament diameter too big - 3mm is too much.  3mm filament is usually 2.85mm nominal or sometimes 2.9mm +/- .05.  But some manufacturers (especially in china) make true 3.0mm filament with a tolerance of .1mm which is useless in an Ultimaker.  It will print for a few meters and then clog so tight in the bowden you will have to remove the bowden from both ends to get the filament out.  Throw that filament in the trash!  It will save you weeks of pain

8b) Something wedged in with the filament.  I was setting up 5 printers at once and ran filament change on all of them.  One was slowly moving the filament through the tube and was almost to the head when I pushed the button and it sped up and ground the filament badly.  I didn't think it was a problem and went ahead and printed something but there was a ground up spot followed by a flap of filament that  got jammed in the bowden tube.  Having the wedgebot (link below) helps you feel this with your hand by sliding the filament through the bowden a bit to see if it is stuck.

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/wedgebot-for-ultimaker2

9) Extruder mis calibrated.  Maybe you changed equipment or a wire fell off.  Try commanding the filament to move exactly 100mm and then measureing with a ruler that it moved 100mm within 10% accuracy.  If not adjust the steps/mm (this is done by editing a json file on the UM3).

10) Z axis steps/mm.  it's easier than you might think to double or half the Z axis movement as there is a jumper on the circuit board that can be added or removed.  If the Z axis is moving 2X you will get 50% underextrusion.  Your parts will also be 2X as tall.

11) Crimped bowden.  At least one person had an issue where the bowden was crimped a bit too much at the feeder end although the printer worked fine when new it eventually got worse and had underextrusion on random layers.  it's easy to pull the bowden out of the feeder end and examine it.  Similar to 8b above - use the wedgebot to feel how much friction there is in the bowden.

12) Worn Bowden.  After a lot of printing (or a little printing with abrasive filaments) the bowden resistance can be significant. It's easy to test by removing it completely from the machine and inserting some filament through it while one person holds it in the U shape.  Preferably insert filament that has the pattern from the feeder and fight the movement by applying 2kg force on both ends at the same time and then seeing how much harder you have to push it on top of 1kg force.  UM2 feeders can push with 5kg force.  UM3 can push quite a bit more.  5kg is plenty.

13) Small nozzle.  Rumor has it some of the .4mm nozzles are closer to .35mm.  Not sure if this is actually true.  I'm a bit skeptical but try a .6mm nozzle maybe.  This shouldn't be a problem on the UM3 which has very good quality control but try a different core.

14) CF filament.  The knurled sleeve in the extruder can get ground down smooth - particularly from carbon fill.  4 spools of CF will destroy not just nozzles but the knurled sleeve also.  Look at it visually where the filament touches the "pyramids".  Make sure the pyramids are sharp.

15) Hot feeder driver.  I've seen a more recent problem in the forums (>=2015) where people's stepper drivers get too hot - this is mostly a problem with the Z axis but also with the feeder.  The high temps means the driver appears to shut down for a well under a second - there is a temp sensor built into the driver chip.  The solution from Ultimaker for the um2 is that they lowered all the currents to their stepper drivers in the newer firmware.  Another solution is to remove the cover and use desk fan to get a tiny bit of air movement under there.  This doesn't seem to be a problem on UM3 even though it's the exact same circuitry but they lowered the current in the firmware.  But it's worth considering if air temp is 30C or hotter.  It would probably happen only after printing for a while (air heats up slowly under the printer).


16) third fan broken.  This tends to cause complete non-extrusion part way through a print.  In the door of the head.  You can hear it come on when cores get above 40C.  Without this fan several things can go wrong.  It can take a while as usually you also need several retractions to carry the heat upwards.  There are a few failure mechanisms and I don't understand them all.  One of them is probably that the molten PLA spreads out above the teflon and sticks to the metal in a core or fills the gap at the base of the bowden in UM2.  Later it cools enough to keep the filament from moving up or down.

17) Spiralize/vase mode.  This is a rarely used feature of Cura but you might have left it on by accident?  In this mode the wall of your part is printed in a single pass.  So if you have a .4mm core and the wall is .8mm thick it will try to over extrude by 2X.  This is difficult to do and may instead lead to underextrusion.

18) too many retractions (this causes complete failure) - if you have too many retractions on the same piece of filament you can grind it to dust.  10 is usually safe.  20 is in the danger zone.  50 should guarantee failure.  You can tell cura to limit retractions to 10 per a given spot of filament.  Do this by setting "maximum retration count" to 10 and "minimum extrusion distance" to your retraction distance (4.5mm for UM2 and 6.5 for UM3).

19) Brittle filament.  Espciallty with older PLA but even brand new pla can do this.  If you unspool some (for example if it's in the bowden) for many hours (e.g. 10 hours) it can get extremely brittle and it can snap off into multiple pieces in the bowden.  It's not obvious if you don't look for this.  Then it starts printing just fine and at some point one of those pieces reaches the print head and gets hung up somewhere and the printer suddenly stops extruding for now apparent reason.  This usually happens within the first meter of filament - once you get to printing the filament that was recently on the spool it should be fine from then on.

20) The "plus" feeder can have an issue where the filament doesn't sit properly for one print and it permanently damages the arm inside the feeder as shown by this photo - the hole is ground down asymetrically: http://gr5.org/plus_feeder_issue.jpg

21) Filament tangle - the end of the filament can get tucked under a loop on the spool and this tangle can propagate from then forever to the end of the spool until you fix it.  It will cause many many jam ups and slow then halt extrusion.  Repeatedly.  The fix is to remove the filament from the printer, unroll a few meters and respool and put back on the printer.  Never let go of the end of the filament spool until it's in the bowden.
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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

Wow, that is a very exhaustive list. I can't thank you enough! It will take me quite a while to run through all that and confirm/test it. That is certainly a wealth of information, and I do feel positive that a solution is in there somewhere.

 

This is clearly forecast to turn itself into it's own hobby however, and I simply don't have room for anymore hobbies.

I do have another machine, a Form2 - that just works, and doesn't require such extensive tinkering, plus the prints are just worlds apart compared to anything an FDM machine is capable of producing.

 

That being said, the machine is still for sale should someone be interested. I will entertain any reasonable offers. I will be certain to include your list to whoever ends up with the Ultimaker.

 

Thanks again to all!

 

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Posted · New Ultimaker 3 for sale

Hi. Im Peter. New and i take the pile AS you offer it above.

Email me for Details at 0800peter(at)web.de

Best regards Peter

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