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Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker


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Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

Hello guys,

 

I am trying to use the bUltimaker to create a firmware for my Ultimaker Original after I have installed many upgrades like UM2 head and Ultimaker heated bed but I am having difficulties to find the correct temperature sensor on bUltimaker to generate my firmware.

 

So, what I have is:

 

UMO with 1.5.7 Board

Compete UM2 head, with fans, temperature sensor and heater cartridge

Heated bed https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254116018350

 

Could someone guide me on right direction on which temperature sensor choose on BULtimaker.

 

https://bultimaker.bulles.eu/

 

Thanks in advance.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    I'm not sure you can.  The UM2 head normally has a PT100 sensor.  Can you confirm that detail?  If you measure the ohms it should be about 109 ohms +/- 5 ohms at room temperature.

     

    The UMO heated bed upgrade allowed you to use a PT100 sensor but they added a second circuit board to allow you to measure the temperature with a PT100 and the 1.5.7 version board.  The UMO+ uses the V2.X circuit board which has extra electronics to deal with a PT100.  So in summary, I'm not sure you can do it.  If you are an electrical engineer then you can study the schematic for the 1.5.7 and the V2 board and maybe figure something out.

     

    Or you can buy a UM2 circuit board.  Or you can get a chinese clone of the UM2 circuit board.  I guess because I'm really cheap I would probably go with the last option but realize it may take a while to get it all working and it helps if you know electronics and can read schematics.

     

    The simplest solution by far is to buy an authentic UM2 circuit board with the UM2 display.  Or a UMO+ circuit board (which might be the same PCB - not sure) with the UMO+ firmware.

     

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Hi gr5,

     

    Yes it is PT100 sensor but on bULtimaker there is loads of PT100 sensors, I need to know which I should choose.

    Also I have installed the e3d board that supposed read the pt100 from head and send reading to the board, but I am having 68ºC at room temperature and it doesnt change.

    I flashed it with pt100 but the only sensor that works is the thermistors that came on chinese print head, and both reads ok, bed and head, I am considering using those thermistors to get my temperature if I couldnt find the right ones on bULtimaker.

     

    I dont think need change the board, I saw guys that made these upgrade but I cant contact them to ask.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker
    3 minutes ago, Juliogdiana said:

    Also I have installed the e3d board that supposed read the pt100 from head and send reading to the board

     

    grafik.thumb.png.00588eeca278990e9f8ad853fe280387.png

     

     

    The e3d amplifier board is based on the circuit design of the Ultimainboard V2 controller (according to their documentation).

     

    Dunno, but i can imagine that there's a pullup resistor for the old thermistor on the arduino shield. If so, the resistor needs to be removed or bridged first.

     

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    Posted (edited) · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Hi Folks,

     

    On this board there is one pull up resistor (4.7 K) for each A/D input.

    You can buy an amplifier that convert PT100 signal analog to standard PT100 DC output.

    You'll find some here:

     

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALeKk01NuuZnoLTj1YmK_qclspsRd3fWlg:1605474655233&q=amplifier+board+for+pt100+for+UMO+1.5.7+PCB&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPi5WUu4XtAhXvk4sKHQ0gCXYQkeECKAB6BAgMEDA

     

    You just connect it to the three point terminal, ground, +5 Volt and signal.

     

    Thanks

    Torgeir

    Edited by Torgeir
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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Just checked your possible choice of temperature sensors, -and a PT100 with a 4.7 Kohm is possible to use!

     

    Here it is:

     

    PT100.thumb.jpg.4c66d7d72f50c6c090a11f214028cbc1.jpg

     

    Good luck.

     

    Thanks

    Torgeir

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    Posted (edited) · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Forgot this:

     

    You just need to connect the two wires from the PT100 to ground and signal.

     

    Edit: The above may only be done if you're using non floating input signal to amplifier, but best way is to put the shield to main PCB ground, -not the ground on the PT100 DC amplifier!

    For all floating ground PT100 amplifiers (as UMO & UM2), shield MUST go to main PCB ground.

     

    Sometimes there is a shielded wire and this is connected to ground.

    As this is a resistance sensor, it do not matter where you put them -no polarity problem here.

     

    Edit: The purpose of the shield is to avoid EMC problem, -to avoid temperature interference issues, both from other outside equipment -but also from other active sensors/devices inside the printer.

     

    Thanks

    Torgeir

     

    Edited by Torgeir
    Edited to avoid any confusion in wording.
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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    @Juliogdiana - Torgeir has the best answer.  You have to make sure there is a 4.7K pullup.  Not sure if it comes with one so you may have to add one.  4.7K would typically be yellow/purple/red color stripes on the resistor.  If it is yellow/purple/orange then this is 47K and should be removed and replaced with a 4.7K.  There might not be any resistor at all and so you might have to solder one in.

     

    If you aren't good with electronics, maybe you know someone who is good with soldering and understands simple circuits and owns a soldering iron and an ohm meter.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Thanks for the information guys, I have tried every combination with the pt100 and nothing.

     

    I have it working with thermistor, I will use instead pt100, I know is not accurate but at least I get it working

     

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker
    21 hours ago, Juliogdiana said:

    I have tried every combination with the pt100 and nothing.

    Almost surely because you need to add the 4.7k pullup resistor.  I think using the thermistor is a great solution.  The pt100 isn't more accurate but it can handle higher temps.  Thermistors get damaged at high temps (they are all different but yours should be fine up to 230C probably even 250C) and once they get overheated they start reading the wrong temp.  As long as you stick to PLA you'll be fine.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Hi @Juliogdiana,

     

    Kind of strange this, what kind of setting are you using for the thermistor (name of setting)?

    Also, what about the heat bed, is not this one equipped with PT100?

    Is this the original heat bed (12 VDC). or is it the 24 VDC version?

     

    Thanks

    Torgeir

     

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Thats the problem gr5, I want to print ABS, I will try again.

     

    Torgeir, I have selected on builmaker the pt100 sensor same as ultimaker v2.x board, is that the wrong one?

     

    On bed I have removed the smd thermistor and installed a standard hotend thermistor 100k same as on J-head, it is working perfect.

     

    The problem I have is only with PT100 from Hotend, I dont know which type of sensor I need to select when building the firmware, as I have the e3d pt100 amplifier board, should i select pt100 with 4.7k pull up?

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    Posted (edited) · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Hi there,

     

    Aha, now I see..

     

    You need to use this module with PT100:

     

     

    PT_100_Selection.thumb.jpg.7e8a2845c4af6b0b5430fa57b6b0edef.jpg

     

    This is actually a true copy of UM2's sensor amplifier!

     

    The pull up resistor R23 need to be removed, or else the reading will be in error.

     

    Your E3D board need to be connected to the "TEMP 1" input here:

    R23_Resistor.thumb.jpg.1e3697a9a495c5c1652b377c207eba65.jpg

     

    Here you will find more info (source I'm using):

    https://reprap.org/wiki/Ultimaker's_v1.5.7_PCB#Pinout_of_Extension_connectors

     

    Here is the wiring diagram of E3D amplifier PCB:

     

    E3D_Sch.thumb.jpg.5e4987a2027a8a99f21650fa0c533190.jpg

     

    And here, you can see the same amplifier on the UM2 PCB:

    UM2_Sch.thumb.jpg.50c5ba74ff1ba6c88c9e9cc390223179.jpg

    On this Wiki page, you see a color picture of the UMO shield (same as used on the Rep-Rap).

     

    Just connect the E3D amplifier as shown identified on the amplifier and the TEMP 1 input terminal.

     

    Use a small sharp plier cutter to remove resistor R23 on the shield PCB.

     

    So, good luck with this installation and just yell out if there is something unclear.

     

    Thanks

     

    Torgeir

     

     

     

     

    Edited by Torgeir
    Txt error
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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker
    2 hours ago, Juliogdiana said:

    I have the e3d pt100 amplifier board,

    WHAT???? NOW YOU TELL US??? 

     

    lol.  Okay.  You should have mentioned that before.🙂  I forgive you.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Yes gr5, mentioned it on my second post

     

    Also I have installed the e3d board that supposed read the pt100 from head and send reading to the board, but I am having 68ºC at room temperature and it doesnt change.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Ok guys, I did what Torgeir mentioned, cut out the R23 and put the e3d board, now my temperature goes down when I heat up, I have inverted the pt100 wires but still the same, pt100 have 3 wires, 2 red and one clear, I have both red`s together and clear separate, any guess now?

     

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Hi there,

     

    Did you try to disconnect (cut) one end of the resistor?

    If you tried this and it's still showing 68 deg C., there is another solution, this is why I want you to cut just one side of the resistor.. Beside, also to go back to the thermistor -in worst case.

     

    Cause, the amplifier might be out of service, if so -the resistor can easily be bent down and soldered back..

     

    The last way to use the PT100 is to disconnect it from the E3D PCB and then connect the PT100 direct to TEMP1 input.

    Next is to select "PT100 with 4K7 Ohm pull up", then is should work.

    If you have an "accurate" resistance meter, you might put the PT100 into an ice bath "mixture of ice and water".

    When this bath is stirred it is "the reference we normally use for 0 deg C."!

    Here you will measure 100 Ohm, if your equipment is good..

     

    Thanks

    Torgeir

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Both red together?  Please show us a picture of your setup.

    Thanks

    Torgeir.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Do you have a multimeter/Ohmmeter?

     

    Torgeir

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    yes I have multimeter/ohmemter

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    That’s what I have

    A5E34E87-37B5-45DF-9EDE-E6370BD2BADB.jpeg

    638DD912-A1B4-4072-8B50-F908B381B8F6.jpeg

    F1419734-149E-451D-9DEC-FD2B71C48FD8.jpeg

    F320D837-9DAF-4ADE-A36D-417CC8AB2B4E.jpeg

    7583BABF-2C3F-4448-BB8F-0DD84A67F72E.jpeg

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    I'll think your PT100 sensor is shorted, that's why it go to negative value.

    If you measure between the two red wires you may see about (108-112) Ohm depending of your room temperature..

     

    Torgeir.

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    two reds? is not supposed to be between red and white?

     

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Ok., one red should be together with the shield, but as this is a floating input -it should be to ground.

    So for now do not connect the ground, but just the two red ones.

    The shield is to be connected to true ground to avoid EMC problems..

     

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    Posted · Help with temperature sensors on bUltimaker

    Normally red and white, due to non floating input of amplifier.

    But sometimes they use same color to reflect non polarity sensor.

     

    I'm using a ring terminal on the ground and connect it to the ground (one of the attachment screws on the board).

     

    Was not clear enough here, sorry.

     

    Thanks

    Torgeir 

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