Material stuck in print core after each print

[LXXXIII 0]

Hello,

 

The past year I printed sporadically with my UMS5 (Pro Bundle) machine. All this time without any issues.

In the last 3 weeks I ramped up printing to almost 24/7. Shortly after this I encountered more and more 'The material seems to be stuck in print core 1' errors after each print. At this point it's happening after each print. When completing the wizard and removing the stuck material I can't seem to notice why the material is stuck. The end of the material looks normal when I inspect the ejected material. At the area where the material was in the feeder I can see some grinding damage.

 

I regularly perform maintenance on the machine, following the Ultimaker instructions. This includes cleaning the print cores (hot and cold).

 

The machine runs the latest firmware and I'm using Cura 4.13.1.

I'm using a CC 0.6 print core and am printing Fillamentum Extrafill PLA. (I tested with Ultimaker PLA, this also results in stuck material)

 

Any input on how to solve this issue will be appreciated.

[Dustin 130]

Sorry to hear you are having issues.

I would recommend updating your version of Cura.
Additionally, can you confirm the exact firmware version number you're on?

Doing a quick glance at the Support Knowledge Base also notes printing with materials such as PLA with a CC core is considered experimental. So, your results may vary considerably. 
CC print core compatibility (makerbot.com)
Print core and printer compatibility (makerbot.com)

[gr5 2,177]

Dustin I doubt it's the version of Cura.

 

LXXXIII - there are many possible causes.  The most common by far is that the front fan stopped working.  The printer doesn't have a way of knowing this.  The 2 symptoms is low or failed extrusion after 5 to 20 minutes of printing and having trouble getting the filament out of the print core after it has cooled.

 

So heat either printcore to 100C and as it passes around 40C the fan should start spinning.  Open the front cover to make sure it really is spinning.

 

If that works then it's most likely a problem with the printcore.  The teflon inside after a lot of use can have issues where there is now a space for the filament to expand into, then cool/harden, then get stuck.  Printcores are considered expendable (like filament) and should be replaced occasionally.

[LXXXIII 0]

I've tried switching to Cura 5.2.1. But for some reason I can't get the same results with the particular model I'n currently printing compared with slicing in 4.13.1

 

I know the CC print core is not really designed for printing PLA. But what's the alternative if I want to print with a 0.6 nozzle?

 

The S5 is on firmware 7.1.3

[LXXXIII 0]

14 minutes ago, gr5 said:

Dustin I doubt it's the version of Cura.

 

LXXXIII - there are many possible causes.  The most common by far is that the front fan stopped working.  The printer doesn't have a way of knowing this.  The 2 symptoms is low or failed extrusion after 5 to 20 minutes of printing and having trouble getting the filament out of the print core after it has cooled.

 

So heat either printcore to 100C and as it passes around 40C the fan should start spinning.  Open the front cover to make sure it really is spinning.

 

If that works then it's most likely a problem with the printcore.  The teflon inside after a lot of use can have issues where there is now a space for the filament to expand into, then cool/harden, then get stuck.  Printcores are considered expendable (like filament) and should be replaced occasionally.

I read in other posts about issues with the fan causing a similar issue. I already checked. The front fan is working properly and there is also no debris blocking air flow.

 

I also suspect it's the print core that's causing the issue. What's the expected lifespan of a CC print core? I'm at 16 days right now. Doesn't seem that long.

 

What's the alternative to a CC 0.6 print core if I want to continue printing at 0.6 nozzle size?

[gr5 2,177]

3dsolex.com has printcores from 0.1mm (yes!  very tiny) to around 2.5mm including 0.6.  They have changeable nozzles so you can try .4, .6 and .8 with one printcore.

 

Maybe you got a defective CC 0.6.  I really don't know.  is it a "CC 0.6 red" or a regular "CC 0.6"?  (or is there only a regular "CC 0.4"?)?  I've lost track of the CC printcore varieties.

 

The CC 0.6 should work fine with any filament that an AA 0.4 will print.

 

I would do some cold pulls (google if you don't know what this is) on a working core like an AA 0.4 and on the CC 0.6 until you get a really nice shaped tip with the narrow end included.  Then I would examine the diameter of the pulled filament with calipers and maybe insert it cold back into the core to see how tight it is.

 

The issue that can happen is that the teflon tube which is basically inside the aluminum fin section, can either be too large such that if the material melts in that cooler section and gets thicker, it can cause a clog where it won't go down through the heat break and it won't go up through the top of the core.  OR it can be that the teflon tube is too short and there is a gap of air just above the heat break and molten filament can get in there and cool and get stuck.

 

After "broken fan" this is the most likely cause of materials stuck in a core.  I really don't know.  It could also be the flow sensor I suppose?

 

Did you make sure you have "line width" set to 0.6?  For a CC 0.6 core printing PLA I would probably use an AA 0.4 profile (they are better debugged) and set the line width to 0.6 and then when you go to print it will say "wrong printcore" or something and you can hit "ignore".

 

But really it seems to me the problem is most likely with the printcore but that sucks as that's the most expensive core.

[LXXXIII 0]

It's a regular CC 0.6 core. Only printed PLA with it.

 

I already came across the 3dsolex website in my troubleshooting search.  I've now ordered an AA printcore from them with 0.6 nozzles.

 

During regular maintenance I do a hot and cold pulls. The print core is always as clean as a whistle. Once the 37h print that's running is complete I will do some cold pulls on the 0.6 and a 0.4 nozzle. I will share my findings.

 

The fan is in my case not the cause of the problem. Its working fine.

 

The line width is absolutely set to 0.6. I'm printing a model that's designed with a 0.6 in mind.

[gr5 2,177]

It's not about how clean the cold pull is.  It's about the shape - does it bulge out?  More than the AA core?  That bulge can get stuck and cause underextrusion, no extrusion, or it might work fine during printing but then you can't get the filament out of the printcore.  You posted screenshots of error messages but I'm not familiar with that exact error so I'm not sure if the failure is during printing or after printing is complete.  I'm guessing it's the flow sensor that is noticing a problem.  Sometimes the flow sensor is just plain wrong.  You can view the flow sensor results while you are printing.  Go to the url of your printer's ip address and look at that page and there is a link to the temperature graph which includes flow sensor data.

[Enigma_M4 119]

Hi,

probably the culprit is your feeder.

Is the feeder clean inside (afaik maintenance shedule recommends cleaning every month) and is the feeder tension set properly?

Regards

[gr5 2,177]

If you don't have the material station then it's easy to test the feeder - you fight it when the filament is not yet in the printer head.  It should take around 10 pounds force to be able to pull the filament backwards when the feeder is trying to pull the filament forwards.

 

Since I think you *do* have the material station I'm not sure how to do that test.

[Pflueger1018 1]

Hi @LXXXIII

i have exact the same Problem with my Printer.  I print ABS with a AA0,4 Nozzle. After each print the Printer stop and sad that the material is Stuck.

I cleaned the feeder , bought a new nozzle , cleaned the fan, set the tension of the Feeder but its always the same Failure.

Did u find a solution for the Problem?
 

[Cruzzer08 1]

I am having the same problem, its driving me crazy!

The entire print goes fine and at the end I get that same error screen,

The wizard has me remove the bowman tube which comes out with very little resistance, then forces me to waste about 2 feet of filament every time.

I've tried increasing standby temperature, and that didn't help. I've done print head cleaning multiple times, fan is working. Removed material tip looks clean and well shaped but there is a section above that is thinner. 

 

What is the machines print head process when a print ends? Does it allow the filament to cool too much before material handler extracts? is that controlled by print temperature or standby temperature? Is there a sensor that has to see the filament at a particular location before extract? It does only happen with the PETg ESD, is there a material setting that I'm missing, the prints come out great. I did get the print profile from the Ultimaker Marketplace. 

 

Ultimaker S5 w/material and air handlers,

Firmware 7.1.3, Cura 5.2.1

AA.04 printcore, using PETg 0800 ESD

[Dustin 130]

3 minutes ago, Cruzzer08 said:

I am having the same problem, its driving me crazy!

The entire print goes fine and at the end I get that same error screen,

The wizard has me remove the bowman tube which comes out with very little resistance, then forces me to waste about 2 feet of filament every time.

I've tried increasing standby temperature, and that didn't help. I've done print head cleaning multiple times, fan is working. Removed material tip looks clean and well shaped but there is a section above that is thinner. 

 

What is the machines print head process when a print ends? Does it allow the filament to cool too much before material handler extracts? is that controlled by print temperature or standby temperature? Is there a sensor that has to see the filament at a particular location before extract? It does only happen with the PETg ESD, is there a material setting that I'm missing, the prints come out great. I did get the print profile from the Ultimaker Marketplace. 

 

Ultimaker S5 w/material and air handlers,

Firmware 7.1.3, Cura 5.2.1

AA.04 printcore, using PETg 0800 ESD

Sorry to hear about the issue your having.
I would not increase standby temperature from a Marketplace profile.
What profile are you using exactly? And is your material the same brand? or are you just using a similar material from a different brand?

Why this is important and to answer your question..
The machine has multiple steps to the end print process basically "yes" to all your related questions to that. Each Marketplace profile has to be tuned manually for that process before its published.
So a Marketplace profile being used for a different brand of material, it is indeed possible it wont work completely during the end print stages.

Though issues like this still usually point to hardware issues.
Have you contacted UltiMaker support about this issue by chance?

[Cruzzer08 1]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:28 AM, Dustin said:

Sorry to hear about the issue your having.
I would not increase standby temperature from a Marketplace profile.
What profile are you using exactly? And is your material the same brand? or are you just using a similar material from a different brand?

Why this is important and to answer your question..
The machine has multiple steps to the end print process basically "yes" to all your related questions to that. Each Marketplace profile has to be tuned manually for that process before its published.
So a Marketplace profile being used for a different brand of material, it is indeed possible it wont work completely during the end print stages.

Though issues like this still usually point to hardware issues.
Have you contacted UltiMaker support about this issue by chance?

I am using the exact material from the Ultimaker marketplace, Jabil PETg 0800 ESD

There was a recent update to profile that I have not tried yet. Notes only say that it is for S7 support but I will get it loaded and give it a try today.

I have not contacted support yet. I'll try todays print with the profile update and original settings. If the problem remains I'll contact Ultimaker. 

Thanks for the Response

[arj3090 2]

I have this exact same issue that seemed to have started when I started using 3DXTech ASA. Every time a print is finished I have to:

 

- Turn off the printer

- Turn it back on

- Manually heat the print core

- Pull the filament out

- Cut off about 10mm

- Do an Unload on the print core

- Unload the material station

- Reload and select type

[jirodriguez72 19]

I have this same issue with NylonX and NylonG using the .6 CC Ruby core, used to not have any issues, but about 5 or 6 firmware updates ago it started having this issue and I have not been able to get it to go away....very annoying considering the cost of S5 Pro bundle.

[Dustin 130]

1 hour ago, jirodriguez72 said:

I have this same issue with NylonX and NylonG using the .6 CC Ruby core, used to not have any issues, but about 5 or 6 firmware updates ago it started having this issue and I have not been able to get it to go away....very annoying considering the cost of S5 Pro bundle.

Have you reached out to MatterHackers for help with this issue?
 

[mrender 25]

3Dsolex do some great alternatives to the Ultimaker consumable cores.  All the bits on the 3Dsolex are replaceable unlike the ultimaker ones. Great customer service too which is good to know.

Printcore CC 0.4 Everlast Ruby – 3DSolex

[LXXXIII 0]

It's been almost one year since I originally posted this issue. The problem I addressed is, you guessed it, still a problem.

 

- Still performing all necessary maintenance to the machine.

 

- Always updated machine to the latest firmware.

 

- Bought a 3DSolex Printcore Coreheating - Printcore AA .40 Tri-X + some additional 3DSolex Printcore AA-BB Nozzles - 0.60. This printcore almost drove me to insanity! No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to work properly. Contacted 3D Solex through their contact form ... received no response.

 

- Since almost everything and everyone was pointing at the printcore I also bought a new Ultimaker CC 0.6 printcore. This prints fine but still had the issue with the material being stuck after every print. Conclusion - It wasn't my first Ultimaker CC 0.6 printcore. This, combined with the 3DSolex printcore was a very expensive troubleshooting step!

 

After one year of this miserie and observing the machine carefully each time a print ended I believe the issue is caused by the sequence the printer uses to end the print cycle. The printcore is cooled to much before the printer attempts to retract the material. Can anybody tell what the optimal printcore temperature is for PLA when the printer retracts the material?

 

This is my last effort trying to resolve this issue. I've almost given up on this machine, and Ultimaker by extension.

 

[gr5 2,177]

If it prints fine the whole print but often won't come out at the end...

 

Or if it won't start printing right after a successful print...

 

Then the problem is typically with the teflon inside the printcore.  Both Ultimaker and 3dsolex can potentially have this issue.  More generally, the problem is that the inside diameter of the print core immediately above the heatsink may be larger or smaller in diameter (usually larger) and the filament softens enough to at least partially fill the larger diameter space and after it cools it won't go up and it won't go down.  If you heat the core long enough it usually softens enough to start feeding again.

 

More specifically the most common issue is that the teflon is either cut a tiny bit too short so there is an air gap between the teflon and the heat break and you can get filament sticking far far into that gap.  Or the teflon inner diameter is .2mm larger in diameter than an earlier batch that was perfect.

 

If I'm right then some cores should be fine and other's get stuck more often.

 

If you have a piece of filament that is stuck in a core and then slice filament with a hot knife just above the "trumpet" and disassemble the core you can use that piece of filament as a measuring device to see where the issues are - if it passes nicely through the teflon but gets stuck in the "trumpet" then you know and one fix might be to drill out the trumpets and the upper aluminum heat sink.  Which can be significantly larger.  Until it passes through.  OR if the problem is that the teflon isn't long enough you could add a tiny slice of a spare piece of teflon "donut" to the top end to keep the teflon in place.

 

Anyway, if it was me, I'd go for this last option in above paragraph (take apart and fix all the cores).

 

I'm not sure how to modify the "temperature when to retract the filament at end of print" temp.  This is a pretty important feature because it keeps the filament from creating a very thin long string which is okay if you print again right away but it can get trapped in the bowden and cause all kinds of clogging issues if you don't let the filament cool a bit before retracting.

 

 

[LXXXIII 0]

On 12/4/2023 at 5:27 PM, gr5 said:

If it prints fine the whole print but often won't come out at the end...

 

Or if it won't start printing right after a successful print...

 

Then the problem is typically with the teflon inside the printcore.  Both Ultimaker and 3dsolex can potentially have this issue.  More generally, the problem is that the inside diameter of the print core immediately above the heatsink may be larger or smaller in diameter (usually larger) and the filament softens enough to at least partially fill the larger diameter space and after it cools it won't go up and it won't go down.  If you heat the core long enough it usually softens enough to start feeding again.

 

More specifically the most common issue is that the teflon is either cut a tiny bit too short so there is an air gap between the teflon and the heat break and you can get filament sticking far far into that gap.  Or the teflon inner diameter is .2mm larger in diameter than an earlier batch that was perfect.

 

If I'm right then some cores should be fine and other's get stuck more often.

 

If you have a piece of filament that is stuck in a core and then slice filament with a hot knife just above the "trumpet" and disassemble the core you can use that piece of filament as a measuring device to see where the issues are - if it passes nicely through the teflon but gets stuck in the "trumpet" then you know and one fix might be to drill out the trumpets and the upper aluminum heat sink.  Which can be significantly larger.  Until it passes through.  OR if the problem is that the teflon isn't long enough you could add a tiny slice of a spare piece of teflon "donut" to the top end to keep the teflon in place.

 

Anyway, if it was me, I'd go for this last option in above paragraph (take apart and fix all the cores).

 

I'm not sure how to modify the "temperature when to retract the filament at end of print" temp.  This is a pretty important feature because it keeps the filament from creating a very thin long string which is okay if you print again right away but it can get trapped in the bowden and cause all kinds of clogging issues if you don't let the filament cool a bit before retracting.

 

 

Wow, I already had the feeling you know a lot about these machines. But this sir, this blows my mind. 

 

I understand what you're saying. It honestly makes a lot of sense. Even by just looking how the tip of the filament is formed when it comes out of the core after the jam.

 

What I'm about to say maybe sounds a bit harsh, maybe even inappropriate. But one doesn't fork out the money for an Ultimaker S5 with Material Station to then have to start drilling out print cores just to make it do what it's supposed to do. I do have the skills to perform the 'surgery' to the print core that you're describing. But really? I run this printer to support my business. I understand thinkering is still a part of 3D printing. But the potential solution is on another level. If there's an issue with the teflon on the inside of the print core, that, to me, is an Ultimaker QC issue and shouldn't be mine. Further, how big is the chance that you buy 2 Ultimaker cores (1.5 years apart) and a 3DSolex one for good measure to discover that they all have the same issue. To put it blunt, if I felt the need to thinker with a 3D printer in my spare time, I wouldn't have bought this Ultimaker S5, I would have bought something way cheaper. 

 

But another observation. Maybe not the solution but perhaps another way of looking at the issue.

When I monitor the print core temperature during the final minutes of a print, the print core is at 210°C.

When the print is finished, the 'cradle' with the print cores moves forward and to the left, where it starts cooling down.

At exactly 60°C the printer starts retracting the filament, this is the exact moment the whole thing jams and you're presented with the error screen.

When you start the 'assist' program to free the material, the print core first starts heating up again. When it reaches a certain temperature it goes to the next step and asks you to remove the Bowden tube and pull out the material manually.

My question is this: To what temperature is the print core heated in this recovery mode? It sure is more than 60°C. And why is this 'recovery' temperature not used in the first place?

 

 @gr5 I'm truly sorry for the rant above. It's defenately not aimed at you, on the contrary. I really appreciate your input and have huge respect for the knowledge you share with everyone here!

[gr5 2,177]

60C seems wrong.  That seems too cold.  Are we talking about PLA in all 3 places?  (pla in the printer, printer *knows* it's pla, cura knows it's pla)?  I could be wrong.  Maybe 60C is correct but that seems awfully cold.  My S5 definitely does not cool that much.  It cools for maybe 30 seconds only before retracting.

 

I could be completely wrong about teflon/Ultimaker issues.  I know it was once a problem with some 3dsolex cores.

 

Ultimaker tends to consider the cores as "consumables".  They are cheaper than filament as long as you get a new core no more often than every 5 or more spools.  Of course the CC cores are much more expensive.

[LXXXIII 0]

10 hours ago, gr5 said:

60C seems wrong.  That seems too cold.  Are we talking about PLA in all 3 places?  (pla in the printer, printer *knows* it's pla, cura knows it's pla)?  I could be wrong.  Maybe 60C is correct but that seems awfully cold.  My S5 definitely does not cool that much.  It cools for maybe 30 seconds only before retracting.

 

I could be completely wrong about teflon/Ultimaker issues.  I know it was once a problem with some 3dsolex cores.

 

Ultimaker tends to consider the cores as "consumables".  They are cheaper than filament as long as you get a new core no more often than every 5 or more spools.  Of course the CC cores are much more expensive.

 

I think where on to something...

 

I found one of your other posts that's very interesting:

 

When I look at the Ultimaker PLA profiles I see this:

 

<!-- Deprime settings -->
        <setting key="anti ooze retract position">-4</setting>
        <setting key="anti ooze retract speed">50</setting>
        <setting key="break preparation position">-16</setting>
        <setting key="break preparation speed">50</setting>
        <setting key="break preparation temperature">210</setting>
        <setting key="break position">-50</setting>
        <setting key="break speed">25</setting>
        <setting key="break temperature">60</setting>
        <setting key="pressure release dwell time">25</setting>
        <setting key="dwell time before break preparation move">4</setting>
        <setting key="end of print purge volume">0</setting>
        <setting key="end of filament purge volume">0</setting>
        <setting key="flush purge length">60</setting>

 

If 60°C is too cold to retract the material from the print core at the end of a print, what temperature should it be? 

Is it as simple as changing the 'break temperature' in the material file, saving it and importing it to Cura?

[gr5 2,177]

I really don't know.  I don't have a material station and my firmware on my S5 is several years old.  I just know that my print cores don't cool as much.  60C is most likely the correct temperature.  This is basically a "cold pull".  Google it if you aren't familiar (add "3d printer" to the search).

 

It could be that it needs to be slightly warmer for you for some reason.  Maybe your silicone nozzle protector isn't keeping the nozzle warm enough because it is falling apart.  Or maybe you have a weak feeder or higher resistance in your bowden due to wear.  Or windier, colder environment.

 

If it were me, I'd be curious about the 60C and play with it.  Somehow I assume you need to get the above profile to copy over to the printer.  So you have to basically update this material profile, then somehow delete it off the S5, then sync up the material profiles (last step is the easiest).

 

Actually I would check what that temp is for "generic PLA" and if the temp is higher I'd tell cura I have "generic pla".  I'd probably rip out the RFID tag from the spool so the printer is fooled more easily although I think you can manually override that even if it disagrees with the RFID tag on the spool.

 

But I would never have bought the material station in the first place.  It's just one more level of automation keeping me from controlling things on my printer.  Keeping me from feeling the tension or being able to do manual loads and unloads of the filament where I can feel resistance and potential issues every time I change the filament; where I can feel how hard I need to push before filament comes out of the nozzle nicely to see if my nozzle is partially clogged.  One more potential for things breaking or clogging.

 

So maybe I'm not the best person to talk to about this. 😞

 

[LXXXIII 0]

So I found this article:

 

https://support.makerbot.com/s/article/1667412439151#:~:text=Cold pull,-1.&text=After the last hot pull,and apply pressure with pliers.&text=In the Set nozzle temperature,90 °C for PLA.&text=Continue to apply pressure as the nozzle is cooling down.

 

It describes the procedure for a hot and cold pull.

 

For a hot pull they say you need to heat up the nozzle to 235°C when using PLA for the hot pull.

After the last hot pull they say you need to put the filament back in and apply pressure while lowering the temperature to 90°C.

 

I'm going to attempt to change the 'break temperature' to 90°C and see what happens. If successful I can maybe try lowering the temperature by let's say 5°C increments and see what happens.