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macua85

Ultimaker Origional + and dual extruders

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Hi guys,

I ordered an UMO, but in the light of the new product announcement, have made some enquiries with UM to change the order to a UM+. I originally ordered the dual extruder kit, this being the main driver to get a UMO. So the question is, will the dual kit fit the UMO+? As I understand, a separate power supply would be needed, as the inbuilt one can't drive two heated heads and the bed. So, the options I guess are to either disconnect the heated bed, install a relay and give it a second power supply....OR, and this is preferable if possible....Can I run a second power supply in parallel, at the same voltage to increase the current available to the UMO+? Can the board handle heating two heads and the bed if it has sufficient power?

If i had to go with option 1, would i have to make custom firmware, or would the heated bed option in cura still work? Would the wiring be the same as wiring an after market heated bed in terms of the relay? As it happens, I have already bought an after market HBK, so have the relay and PSU to hand.

Thanks for any advice.

 

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As far as I know right now, the UMO+ will NOT work properly with the dual-extrusion kit. This has been a bit of an oversight from us (R&D department).

If dual-extrusion is your goal, it's best to pickup an UMO and Dual-extrusion kit. (And heated bed kit if you want that as well, as that combination does work, as you will have two power supplies then)

---------------------------------

Details on why the UMO+ and Dual kit won't work:

* Dual kit does not contain an extra PT100 for temperature measuements (UMO used a thermocouple)

* Dual kit contains a 19V 40W heater, while the UMO+ uses 24V

* Using the supplied heaters, with the heated bed will cause the power-supply to switch off due to over-current.

You would need a 2nd power-supply and switching circuit on the heated-bed for this to work. Not impossible to build, but not supplied by Ultimaker right now.

 

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Hmmm, i'm not sure what to do now! I was leaning toward the UMO+ as it has all the upgraded electronics. When you say its not supported, I understand that UM haven't incorporated it into the UMO+ design. But, is there a hack? Would the above work? Apart from the heated bed kit, have the electronics changed on the UMO+? Or is it identical apart from this?

Thanks,

 

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Regarding the PT100, does the UMO+ now use a different temp sensor on the head? So no more thermocouple?

 

Yep! And no more amplifier board on the print head:

https://d274pdkuk9fmjq.cloudfront.net/spree/products/224/carousel/SDB7880.jpg?1411184632

btw: It still has only one fan. I call this a missed chance... :sad:

 

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Regarding the PT100, does the UMO+ now use a different temp sensor on the head? So no more thermocouple?

 

Yes. It uses a new sensor. The same sensor as in the UM2. We have a much lower failure rate with this sensor. As it removes the need for the small circuit on the print head.

The UMO+ electronics are the same electronics as in the UM2. So that's 1 board with everything on it.

The older "use relay/SSR" with 2nd powersupply trick can still be done to support an UMO+ and dual-extrusion. (but hooking up 2 powersupplies in parallel should not be done, switching powersupplies will break when you do this)

If you want to hack things, then dual-extrusion on an UMO+ can most certainly be done. All the hardware for it is there, firmware support wise, it's not problem. I even build the firmwares for that: https://github.com/daid/Cura/tree/SteamEngine/resources/firmware/

It's just that it does not work out of the box right now. But it's not impossible to get it to work.

 

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So, if I had a second pt-100, and a second 24v heater, would that be the only thing I'd need to change in the dual kit? I.e would the rest of it fit and plug in with these parts? Power supply is defo an issue though, does the hbk run off 19v too?

 

The rest would plug in, but the system would reset if you turn on both the heated-bed and both heaters. (one heater and heater bed, or just 2 heaters without bed will work)

The HBK comes with a 24V power-supply, and a small circuit board, this board creates 19V for the rest of the system and controls the heated bed. If you do not use this board to supply the rest of the system with 19V, but use your old 19V supply, then you can do dual-extrusion.

 

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Hi. Does this mean that if I get an UMO+ with dual extruders kit I could use it as long as I use 1xtruder+hotbed or 2extruders+bedoff ? Because if that's so that means this is the perfect printer for my proyect. It's this doable without the need of an extra powersupply that would be great news for me.

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Anyone knows what model of pt100 or where can I buy the pt100 of the umo+? I saw a lot of pt100 of different sizes and some china cheap ones...

Also to get a second power supply for the bed I can buy anwhere or must be the one of the HBK?

I have buy an UMO+ and thr dual extruder experimental kit because even when it wont be easy it can work :)

Sorry this newb questions but since I dont have the machine I dont know how the parts are and this will be my second 3d printer but the first that can be so much tinkered. I cant wait to have it :D

Edit: It's the PT 100B, the one available at the ultimaker store the one I need?

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I just choose to jump shark. I'll have ina few weeks the UM+ the HBK and the dual extruders kit. The think that worrys me it's the firmware. That's my unknow territory. Sorry to sound noob (I kinda am) but what firmware I will have to compile? It's just as easy as checking 2 extruders and it will work? Anyone that did this path has the firmware edited to compile or preconpiled? Thank you kindly!

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Hi Neotko,

Thank you for your posts and interest to get involved with Ultimaker, and especially tinker with it.

We are curious to read about the hacks you will be making! :)

In your latest post you say you will get a Ultimaker Original+ and heated bed and dual extruders.

Does this mean you have bought a heated bed extra?

The heated bed is already included in an Ultimaker Original+.

The easiest solution would be to go for an Ultimaker Original, heated bed upgrade and dual extrusion upgrade.

You also won't have to worry about the firmware because it already exists for Ultimaker Original, and if you want to modify it we can always help you here on the forums.

I would definitely recommend this.

 

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Yeah I bough the heated bed extra becuase I wasnt able to find specs of the second power supply (I google it for days). I done this because the um+ I could buy was already assembled. Anyhow I'm sure I'll be ableyo sell the spare parts that I wont be using so it's fine. I'll have all in a week or two. I'll post as soon as I get somethig done :D

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After reading everything again and again I think I missed something.

I will have it in a week or so when imakr finish the assembly so I have one question. If I connect the second hothead to the pcb that comes with the hbk and left the hbk connected as it comes with the umo+ then I should be ok right? I mean that pcb as far as I understand converts 24 to 19V ? I have the pt100 also ordered and I also plan to change from 3mm to 1.75mm (I have a lot of cash I filaments from prior printer).

From the day I get my UMO+ this is going to be a much more fun than when I had to assemble 15 ikeas for my house.

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i bought the UMO+ printer with the intent to add dual extrusion and i was kicking myself for it when i started reading the forums after the purchase, i'm waiting for it to be delivered. The more i think about it this shouldn't be much of an issue, yes i will have to buy the heater and thermocouple to match the UMO+. I don't care much for power bricks so I am planning to install an enclosed power supply (24v, ~350w because I can) which should be able to power anything I add to the printer. I am assuming the heated bed on the UMO+ is the same as the one in the HBK which uses 24v as I understand it and the HBK includes a pcb that steps down the 24v to power the electronics. Does the UMO+ have the same pcb to step down the volts, if not how does the UMO+ accomplish this since by all accounts it cannot handle 24v without modifications? How does the UMO+ provide 19v to the electronics and 24v to the HB? Are the UMO+ electronics capable of powering/ controlling dual extruders and a HB at the same time? thanks in advance.

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Yeah I think with just more W power supply its all fine (I really have no idea but sounda likely). Umo+ uses the same board as UM2. In theory if you can connect everything then it's fine if you have the W (again im just a newb on this). I bough HBK becuase I didnt found all the info and in theory my mix should work but it's more complex. I'm trying to find info to know from someone with knowledge if just with more W it's fine on umo+ or I really need to connect the hotbed to the pcb that comes with it.

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Yikes so many questions.

The UMO is designed to work with 19V, the UMO+ is designed to work with 24V.

The UMO+ comes with a heated bed and the UM2 PCB which has extra connectors for a second extruder. The problem with the extra nozzle/extruder kit is that it will have the wrong temp sensor - you need a PT100. You can buy PT100 parts in many places but UM has a nice one that fits in the print nozzle nicely.

The UMO+ *can* in theory run off 24V or 19V but it's best to use 24V. Yes you need a bigger power supply (more watts, more amps) and also the connector on the back of the UMO might not be specified to work with any more amps than it already does although it's probably fine. Alternatively you can keep the existing power supply and just not do heated bed at the same time as dual extrusion.

So the tricky parts:

1) temp sensor

2) power supply (nozzle is about 30-50W so 50W more than existing (2 amps more) should be fine)

3) firmware

That brings us to the firmware. You can download it and build it yourself. Changing it to do 2 extruders should be trivial - you just comment or uncomment the appropriate lines in Configuration.h. The file is 90% comments and very easy to understand (I think). The firmware source code is here:

https://github.com/Ultimaker/Ultimaker2Marlin

There's various places that describe how to build the firmware. There's basically the GUI way and the command line way. I prefer the GUI way. Here's my old notes on building Marlin:

Then you need to build Marlin. There are instructions that come in the "README.md" text file.

Basically you download and install arduino ide:

http://arduino.cc/en/main/software

Then copy the sanguino software as explained in README file. Open Marlin.ino file in Arduino IDE by double clicking it (not pde file as stated in README - I think that's old). Select board as "Mega 2560" as explained in README file. Go to "file" "preferences" and select "verbose output" so you can find your hex file. Then build it by clicking the check box in the upper left corner. At the bottom you will see it compiling Marlin. At the end of this it says where the hex file is. If you are currently connected to your UM through USB you can just click "file" "upload" and you are done! But you should locate that hex file and save it somewhere along with the Configuration.h file used to create it so you can recreate the same version with maybe one change. Also you can upload the hex file using Cura in expert menu.

Alternatively you can build Marlin with somewhat more detailed step by step instructions the command line way (which I don't prefer):

http://www.extrudable.me/2013/05/03/building-marlin-from-scratch/

Actually I don't think it's the "mega2560" on the ultimaker 2 board. You'll have to google around or ask Daid.

 

 

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