ABS Warping...not solved...

[streuner 0]

Hi there !

I need to print a Cover for a Light that will be placed on a Maschine, and it has to be printed with ABS ( View-1.jpg). It's round about 16cm*16cm and has a height of 4cm.

No matter what i have done...warping has happend all the Time. I tried Glue first - that was not helping - needed to abort print. Then I used ABS-Slurry which was

a lot better (covered the whole Glass with a Spraygun to get it the same hight everywhere - and leveled Bed every time new) ...but still warping ( Bending.jpg).

First we modelled a little groove on the bottom to close the Cover against wetness underneeth - but I deleted this in a next try with still the same Problem of warping.

Last try I added a Rim of 15 Lines and the adhesion seemed to be that high that the Layers split apart on the Edges ( splitting.jpg). :(

Because the Model is big it takes a long time to print it - round about 20 hours. Now there are a few things left to try....

I heated the Bed with 100°C and 110°C ....could it help to print on a lower temperature ?

I printed with Nozzle-temperature 250°C slower speed (40mm) and 260°C higher speed (50mm)....has the Speed an effect on warping - because it happens after a print-time

of round about 10 hours on this Model....is it better to get the Model finished fast or slow ? I have the different Speeds in Expert-Mode of Cura set low to get a good Quality,

but at least I need the Model without warping !

Thanks for fast help - I need 8 of this Parts in the next 3 weeks !!

Markus

[kris 29]

In order to minimise warping to an acceptable level you need to do the following:

Minimise temperature gradients!

1. Hence increase build plate temp to 110C (only do so once the print has started, otherwise it will take forever to heat up.

2. Reduce print temp as low as possible without compromising strength

3. Most importantly; close the build volume so that heat cannot escape. You can do so preliminary with cardboard.

4. Brim is a must.

5. The provided glue stick is absolutely adequate.

Cheers

Kris

[gadgetfreak 7]

Kris gives good advice.

ABS is quite prone to shrinking.

You could also try:

- Lower cooling fans / even turn them off (I think the default ABS profile is set to 50%; try with 0%).

- Redesign the model so that stress is minimized. Straight angles with thick parts will always be prone to warping and re-modeling relieve this stress might help.

Some good advice from nophead at item 11 and 12 in this link:

http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2011/06/23/12-ways-to-fight-warping-and-curling/

Also, what is the reason why you need to use ABS?

If it is because you need a higher heat tolerance, please consider other alternatives such as Colorfabb XT which is available in many colors, including black. It has a glass transition temperature of about 75 degrees Celsius and is also tougher than both PLA and ABS, but shrink about as little as PLA; significantly less than ABS.

This might be the easiest path actually if it meets your material requirements.

Good luck.

Daniel

Edited May 10, 2015 by Guest

[streuner 0]

Kris gives good advice.

ABS is quite prone to shrinking.

You could also try:

- Lower cooling fans / even turn them off (I think the default ABS profile is set to 50%; try with 0%).

Have done it - 0% .....better but not solved !

- Redesign the model so that stress is minimized. Straight angles with thick parts will always be prone to warping and re-modeling relieve this stress might help.

Some good advice from nophead at item 11 and 12 in this link:

http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2011/06/23/12-ways-to-fight-warping-and-curling/

Have a cover over the Printer...inside Temp. round about 40°C ...good but not solved !

Also, what is the reason why you need to use ABS?

If it is because you need a higher heat tolerance, please consider other alternatives such as Colorfabb XT which is available in many colors, including black. It has a glass transition temperature of about 75 degrees Celsius and is also tougher than both PLA and ABS, but shrink about as little as PLA; significantly less than ABS.

This might be the easiest path actually if it meets your material requirements.

The Machine with this Parts will be selled to Malaysia...and my Boss told me the Parts need to be resistant up to 100°C - ... I dont know wheather this is really needed...?!

Good luck.

Daniel

Thanks for your help...I will try to model some small rounded helpers on the corners - maybe this will do the rest. I read about having a plate Temp. above 110°C is better...they wrote up to 150°C can be...but at 140°C ABS starts to get softer...do you know anything about that kind of temperature ?

Markus

[streuner 0]

Reply to Kris :

I have done all this...corners still come up...but the cover on top of the Printer helped me that there was no cracking on the Layers.

Still trying...

Edited May 10, 2015 by Guest

[JohnFox 25]

Reply to Kris :

Try and round the sharp corners of the object, angles increase stress.

Use of 'ABS juice', ( search elsewhere on the web ) is a must to prevent lifting off the bed.

Fans must also be off when using ABS.

I have done all this...corners still come up...but the cover on top of the Printer helped me that there was no cracking on the Layers.

Still trying...

[gr5 2,173]

@streuner - did you get this figured out yet?  Did you try:

1) Squish bottom layer more

2) ABS juice

3) turn off fans

4) 100C or even 110C

5) cover top

6) cover front

7) at least 260C (at least for first layer)

8 ) Brim feature in Cura

??

Once you get good at a new material (ABS) you will eventually find it incredibly easy to get good results.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Guest

[streuner 0]

@streuner - did you get this figured out yet?  Did you try:

1) Squish bottom layer more

2) ABS juice

3) turn off fans

4) 100C or even 110C

5) cover top

6) cover front

7) at least 260C (at least for first layer)

8 ) Brim feature in Cura

??

All done before...no success...

At least the Problem is solved with a 0.6mm nozzle

With this it is not necessary to use ABS juice (jeehaaa...shit stuff...).

Thx for Help...

[streuner 0]

Thread is closed for me now.

Nozzle drilled up to 0.6mm and all problems gone...

Thx for all helping me...maybe it`s an Option for some others to enlarge Nozzle-Diameter !!

[ultiarjan 1,223]

best UM2 option to use enlarged nozzles;

http://ultimaker.com/en/community/view/8689-custom-heater-block-to-fit-e3d-nozzle-on-ultimaker-2

[cloakfiend 995]

I found that applying the ABS paste was effective almost all of the time when i applied it to the glass cold, if i applied it even when the glass was still warm from being used earlier or from previous cleaning the ABS would rise up from time to time.

If you do use abs juice, make sure you use enough keeping it as thin as you can at the same time so you can get it off easy. cleaning is also easy, as you only need washing up liquid to melt ABS off the glass afterwards. Its very easy to clean.

[stabela 0]

HI,

when I first tried printing with ABS I used to have this and all sorts of other problem. I tried fiddling with temperatures and those helped with the adhesion to the build plate. However warping persisted until I experimented with the % run overlap. this material tends to flatten out a lot due to the high temperature, if you decrease the overlap (sometimes down to zero) you get much better results. I still use a build plate temp of 105 deg c and a nozzle temp of 240.

I hope this helps

Kind regards

S

[cloakfiend 995]

I had perfect results with abs and pla out of the box. I see all these new people messing around with expert settings when there is no need. By using those setting you are going to run into trouble down the line.... Truly pointless.

What on earth is going through your head that makes you go straight into advanced settings before you understand the majority or the basics of the 3d printer, as you clearly dont otherwise you wouldnt be going there.

[stabela 0]

I had perfect results with abs and pla out of the box. I see all these new people messing around with expert settings when there is no need. By using those setting you are going to run into trouble down the line.... Truly pointless.

What on earth is going through your head that makes you go straight into advanced settings before you understand the majority or the basics of the 3d printer, as you clearly dont otherwise you wouldnt be going there.

 

[stabela 0]

Dear Friend,

I can understand your indignation, but I assure you I do not fiddle aimlessly with processing parameters. I am a material scientist conducting research at the university of Malta. I used different machines to investigate the properties of materials processed by rapid prototyping technologies. so rest assured I am not messing up the expert settings :-)

Kind regards

Stabela

[cloakfiend 995]

Sorry if i accused you of being a beginner and instantly fiddling, its just so common these days that kids think they are real smart and start tinkering before they even get to grips with the machine.

[kris 29]

In order to minimise warping to an acceptable level you need to do the following:

Minimise temperature gradients!

1. Hence increase build plate temp to 110C (only do so once the print has started, otherwise it will take forever to heat up.

2. Reduce print temp as low as possible without compromising strength

3. Most importantly; close the build volume so that heat cannot escape. You can do so preliminary with cardboard.

4. Brim is a must.

5. The provided glue stick is absolutely adequate.  

Cheers

Kris

 

Jees...I just realised that I forgot a very important aspect:

6. Turn cooling fans OFF

I operate a dedicated UM2 with only ABS and have no problems with warping this way. I didn't touch material settings for ABS, except for the print temperature. That should be as low as possible. Again, everything in order to maintain a constant temperature gradient inside the build volume.

There needs to be a fair amount of glue stick on the glass (several passes), absolutely no need to use ABS slurry.

This way I regularly print ABS parts to the size of almost the entire build volume.

[stabela 0]

hi,

this is propably due to the thick volume of material at the corners. what I do whan I run into this problem is to heat the chamber with a halogen lamp so that the material dose not crystallise layer by layer. Also if this is not emough I reduce the infill density, to reduce the shrinkage. I hope you find this helpful. N.B if you heat the volume the rubber belts need to be replaced more often and the bearings need to be lubricated more often i do it on each run.

[vitalsparks 8]

Try Innofil's 'Fusion' ABS. This has zero warp, and can be printed directly on the glass without any adhesive of any kind. It is a 'professional' class of filament, so is a bit more expensive than most others - but well worth it for critical and difficult designs.

[cloakfiend 995]

If you make sure the light is an LED light then you could save a lot of trouble and just use PLA?

But if you can't then i guess its no help!!

I gave up printing with ABS years ago for exactly the problem you are having..

Edited November 12, 2017 by Guest