As long as the filament is loose from the printcore it is fine to gently pull it out trough the material station.
16 hours ago, D95 said:Even an attempt to remove the core, goes crazy spewing material on the left of the build plate.
Define goes crazy?
The purge on the side behaviour is meant to form the filament into a nice tip so it can be pulled back past the printer feeder reliably.
The head is moving completely off the left side and to the front of a raised build plate and dumping filament down under the build plate on the left side for a while (NOT putting filament on top of the build plate), then it shifts backwards about an inch and dumps some more material on that side, then back another inch etc. It never ran the typical self level procedure at the start of the print, but started this behavior instead. Must shut off power to stop it.
I was able to extract the filament from the head while it was still hot, release the extruder, and pull it back through material station.
Does the same bizarre process if I try to eject the involved Core 1.
Acts normally of I ask it to eject Core 2 not involved yet.
Repeated attempt to print and this time it took same type Tough PLA from Bay B and repeated the same bizarre behavior once that loaded until I killed the power to limit the mess.
This has been a perfectly good working S5 for the last few months. I also have years of experience with a UM2+. All hell broke loose yesterday when the material station was first added.
I have tried factory reset and also repeated the Firmware upgrade of this same 5.4.27-20191212 version and no difference has been seen.
I really hate to remove the material station and try to roll back to the base S5, since it will be tough to decide to try again at some point. Better to resolve this.
Is my reseller going to be any help? Is there older firmware, or some sort of firmware purge and reload that can be done to get a working setup?
Thank you
Edited by D95
14 minutes ago, D95 said:The head is moving completely off the left side and to the front of a raised build plate and dumping filament down under the build plate on the left side for a while (NOT putting filament on top of the build plate), then it shifts backwards about an inch and dumps some more material on that side, then back another inch etc.
This is intended behaviour bed leveling will start after both materials (if your print uses both) are loaded, in the mean time the buildplate is heating up, so not all of the time is lost on this new part of the print procedure.
This purge behaviour is also triggered when you try to change a printcore that was not previously purged and deprimed, the printer keeps track of this and doesn't know that you manually removed the material.
There is no older firmware that supports the material station and as far as I can understand nothing unintentional is happening.
Have you tried letting the printer continue?
1
The first attempted print, I did let it go, and it failed with an error message that print head did not reach temp fast enough.
Found the pile of purged material on the floor of the printer, which is usually not a good sign.
This Purge behavior, if correct, should be better documented so folks know what to expect. I attached a picture of the mess left on the left side from a single hotend 1 purge of the material station load process. Seems like way more filament than I would expect for a purge, and movement of the head front to back during the process is also seemingly unnecessary. Hence why I thought the S5 had lost its mind.
I attempted another print and let it run. The first nozzle purge completed with the mess I show, then it switched nozzles and went to the right side (off) the build plate. It then Failed with ER54 trying to load PVA from Bay E to hotend 2.
I attached image of failure notice.
There does not seem to be any way to get past these error messages on screen, other than a power reset?
No button on screen to push to clear etc?
Pulled about 6" of PVA back out of material station in bay E that looked pretty mangled. It was not up to the Printer in the Bowden.
I also cleared filament from nozzle 1 back though the material station and Bay A too.
I Ran print one more time with expectation it will use material loaded in Bay B and F, which it did. Purge ran on left side in black, to load hotend1, and then for the first time, I saw it also make a big ole pile of PVA off of the right side of the build plate. Big mess on the floor of the printer, but it is finally running a print.
So I would say my problem is solved, but I strongly suggest the behaviors are documented in the quick start guide and the user manual, where I found no mention. Also there should be a way out of these error messages on screen.
Thank you
6 hours ago, robinmdh said:As long as the filament is loose from the printcore it is fine to gently pull it out trough the material station.
Define goes crazy?
The purge on the side behaviour is meant to form the filament into a nice tip so it can be pulled back past the printer feeder reliably.
While technically possible the recommended support training is to disconnect the Bowden tubes from the feeder bottom, cut the filament at the entry hole and pull from the back. We don’t want filament to break and fall back into the merger and into the wrong place, leading to a time-consuming tear down. Breaking filament is usually from old filament or some event that caused a ground down section that is weak and prone to breaking when pulled on. Just my suggestion.
Starting purging may get more optimized in future firmware releases, we don’t want to change the end sequence since that nice clean tip (audible break) is also key to avoid contamination in the material station components.
1
1 hour ago, D95 said:The first attempted print, I did let it go, and it failed with an error message that print head did not reach temp fast enough.
Found the pile of purged material on the floor of the printer, which is usually not a good sign.
This Purge behavior, if correct, should be better documented so folks know what to expect. I attached a picture of the mess left on the left side from a single hotend 1 purge of the material station load process. Seems like way more filament than I would expect for a purge, and movement of the head front to back during the process is also seemingly unnecessary. Hence why I thought the S5 had lost its mind.
I attempted another print and let it run. The first nozzle purge completed with the mess I show, then it switched nozzles and went to the right side (off) the build plate. It then Failed with ER54 trying to load PVA from Bay E to hotend 2.
I attached image of failure notice.
There does not seem to be any way to get past these error messages on screen, other than a power reset?
No button on screen to push to clear etc?
Pulled about 6" of PVA back out of material station in bay E that looked pretty mangled. It was not up to the Printer in the Bowden.
I also cleared filament from nozzle 1 back though the material station and Bay A too.
I Ran print one more time with expectation it will use material loaded in Bay B and F, which it did. Purge ran on left side in black, to load hotend1, and then for the first time, I saw it also make a big ole pile of PVA off of the right side of the build plate. Big mess on the floor of the printer, but it is finally running a print.
So I would say my problem is solved, but I strongly suggest the behaviors are documented in the quick start guide and the user manual, where I found no mention. Also there should be a way out of these error messages on screen.
Thank you
Good ideas and I can understand the confusion, I’ll report this to support, the apparently useless wiggle is actually used to make sure that filament breaks and falls instead of get pulled into a print. Personally I thought about constructing or printing a slender waste bin to insert on each side and collect those. Maybe even incorporate a silicone edge to wipe the nozzle. But for now I just collect and remove the purge.
I dealt with the same thing all morning. Absolute Nightmare. Eventually it stopped throwing errors after every hard restart which was necessary from a previous error, just a death spiral of errors.
I finally was able to start a print, but it keeps trying to unload filament and change to the pla tough. Specifically it seems to be trying to change filament for the next print, when there is no next print. How do I get this thing to stop trying to change filaments every chance it gets?
ALSO, When the material handling station unloads a filament from the bowden tubes, it doesn't go onto the spool and just goes everywhere
2 hours ago, lrodriguez said:is weak and prone to breaking when pulled on
Hence the gently, but yeah if necessary you might have to ope the Bowden tubes there too.
The ER54's most likely reason is that the filament tip was not making it trough the decoupler or into the S5 feeder caused by being slightly bent or cut of flat.
https://ultimaker.com/en/resources/52941-filament-loading-unsuccessful-er54
We will definitely be working on makeing guides to get you out of the material station errors. And indeed in the current solution where you are forced to solve the problem and then reboot the printer is not user friendly.
2 hours ago, lrodriguez said:the apparently useless wiggle
Indeed, the moving back and forth is combined with retractions that combined cause the filament to fall off, as a programmer I would have preferred the bucket and flap solution. I too have thought of printing a collection bucket 😁
but this may act as support for the material then causing it not to fall off.
The amount of filament purged is about twice the volume that is liquid(ish) inside the core so this ensures fresh material will be used in the print, this is actually super useful with materials that degrade faster. We will be making the purge less in the future as well. It also looks like more when extruded trough a 0.4 mm nozzle.
I realise that hearing about future plans does not help you now and they may never be realized, however maybe it helps to know that we know these issues will need to be improved upon.
Thanks for the feedback!
Don't hesitate to ask questions or share your experiences. We can use that to inform decisions about which bits to work on next.
P.S: We do have a long history of apparently useless wiggles, such as the "useless" move at the start of the print which resets the print head switch to a known state.
P.P.S: We also have a history of blocking errors that require a reboot to clear, I'm happy that they did not previously show up often and am sorry if they are a bit more prevalent now.
Edited by robinmdh
1
9 hours ago, schwarm said:ALSO, When the material handling station unloads a filament from the bowden tubes, it doesn't go onto the spool and just goes everywhere
The spool should rotate back during the unloading. Please verify if the roller on the bottom of the bay rotates during the unload. If not you may have a broken rewinder.
9 hours ago, schwarm said:How do I get this thing to stop trying to change filaments every chance it gets?
When you sent a print job the machine will attempt to load the materials you sliced for, so slice for a different material and it will unload the current one first. The matching is exact same type of material.
So to stop it from unloading you can use the skip cool down button at the end of a print and then quickly start a print with the materials that are loaded at that time.
Currently it tries to unload before you can start a new print, this will also change in the future so that you'll have a window of time to sent a print job with the same materials before they are unloaded.
Edited by robinmdhWhat is normal behavior of the material station at the end of a successful print that uses both extruders? Above states that it ”tries to unload” tonight I got an ER61 on bay B ext 1 and the filament stopped a few inches from the print head and the bed did not lower all the way. I was not there at the time but was surprised that the error did not turn off the heat bed
Edited by joestefano
This is certainly not the intended behavior. Please also report it to your reseller; it's important at this stage that any hickups are properly reported.
I assume you checked the according support page on the Ultimaker website ultimaker.com/er61 and already removed the filament correctly from the Pro Bundle.
In order to avoid it in future, I recommend to check the tension on the main feeders (on the printer) and set the marker to the middle if it is not on that setting.
On 1/13/2020 at 3:20 PM, D95 said:I just received and installed the Material station for my S5 bundle. No air manager has arrived yet. After install, upgraded firmware to latest offered on the machine 5.4.27-20191212. Now what was a great printer has lost its mind and is useless. First print I ran, it loaded from bay "A" to extruder 1, but it dumped a bunch of filament off the left side of the build plate, and threw an error that the nozzle did not heat fast enough. Now there is no way I can find to eject that material. It is loaded all the way into the head, but the material menu has all options greyed out for that bay.
Is there some trick to force an unload? I do not want to break material station dragging the filament backwards through it.
Even an attempt to remove the core, goes crazy spewing material on the left of the build plate.
Thank you
If you do a change print core, it will retract the material. I had the same initial reaction to my material station, and got quite a few errors, I did a shut down restart and haven't had a problem since, and it has been in use everyday since when i got it.
I did have an issue where mine wasn't bringing filament all the way to the nozzle, ended up just being a bad bowden tube. I replaced that everything is good.
Reporting back, that after a couple prints completed now, my material station and S5 are performing perfectly.
Knowing what to expect for operation with the Material Station, so that I stopped shutting it down in a panic, has made things much better. The panic shut downs had made the problems even worse to get worked out.
One more thought is that if the S5 display could say something useful like: "Material Station purge in process, Nozzle 1" , instead of the usual "Preparing to print" , Users would be less apt to panic. Use the screen to tell users more of what is going on with the machine please.
Thank you all.
2
8 hours ago, D95 said:Reporting back, that after a couple prints completed now, my material station and S5 are performing perfectly.
Knowing what to expect for operation with the Material Station, so that I stopped shutting it down in a panic, has made things much better. The panic shut downs had made the problems even worse to get worked out.
One more thought is that if the S5 display could say something useful like: "Material Station purge in process, Nozzle 1" , instead of the usual "Preparing to print" , Users would be less apt to panic. Use the screen to tell users more of what is going on with the machine please.
Thank you all.
Thanks, good feedback! I'll share it with our developers.
2
I returned my material sation today, many issues and problems and it was a detriment to a manual workflow.
Try printing with polycarbonate, the purge gets into the z axis screw most of the time and will ruin the print.
Really poor experience with it, why hasn't it been further tested before release?
Edited by Sassw
We have bought our senond Ultimaker S5, this time withe Pro Bundle.
It is beyond belief how many issues we have encountered to make it work, and it still does not work.
working with the reseller is our next option, but if we can't get the material station and air manager to work (even though we have all the latest firmware updates) we will probably return the entire unit and possibly shop for a more reliable alternative.
Hi Nick, thank you for your message. We're sorry to hear that you're struggling with your Pro Bundle.
I think it is a good step to work together with the reseller to see if they can help. Perhaps in parallel we might also be able to help. Can you elaborate on what does not work? With some more tangible information we might be able to provide more tangible help! Thanks, looking forward hearing from you!
Well first things first.
Even though material is shown to be loaded in all bays when I try to load a job it gives a warning and says I dont have material (see images).
We do have the latest firmware installed .
Hi @nickp100,
thank you for your message. I consulted with our product experts and I've learned you should be able to continue / start your print. The message you are seeing should be interpreted as a warning, but not blocking the process.
That you see this warning is actually a bug. What is the reason behind this bug? Usually if you install new material on an Ultimaker S5, you unload material if any is on there already and then you load your new material. The Ultimaker S5 either detects which material it is or you select it from a menu and that is how the Ultimaker S5 knows which material is loaded because the last registered action is 'load'.
The material station also loads new material, but after it is loaded it 'unloads' the material again because that way it can always select the right material for the job. As the menu shows, it does know which material is where. But because 'unload' is the last registered action, it is a little bit confused.
This bug is scheduled to be addressed in the next sprint so hopefully we'll be able to wave it goodbye pretty soon, but for now I would like to advice you to ignore the warning and proceed with your print job. Our apologies for the inconvenience!
1
Hi
Might I humbly suggest that the "death spiral" of going into a series or error 56,58,61's all of which require power down of the machine is also a bug? The only way to clear them was to unload all 6 spools (including those not feeding the active extruder) from the material station. Indeed this took 6 reboots. I would suggest that any screen that locks up the machine requiring a reboot at least should say "reboot now" on the screen.
Some sort of unified instructions / troubleshooting guide for the material station is needed. Calling my supplier at 2AM as these errors spout isn't going to get me anywhere. ( indeed this all happened in the middle of the night last night).
If I look at how things like normal loading or hot / cold pulls are handled and compare that with the material station process ... yikes. If indeed those little pictures are needed, then there is a whole book full of them needed for the material station.
The *expectation* is that an error situation can be cleared and the three day print restarted to complete the second half of the print. The reboot process pretty much eliminates this.
Bob
5 minutes ago, uncle_bob said:If I look at how things like normal loading or hot / cold pulls are handled and compare that with the material station process ... yikes. If indeed those little pictures are needed, then there is a whole book full of them needed for the material station.
This is why I returned the unit, even with eventual firmware fixes it will never actually be as simple as a manual load.
Hi
Having used multi material setups on other printers, they *never* are as simple as a single spool manual load. There are too many little gizmos in the way. I have no expectation that it will be hassle free. I'd just like to make it through my first material switch out without 6 reboots.
Bob
Hi @uncle_bob thank you for your post.
It sounds like error messages may have been shown but not addressed, and at some point they must have added up. Perhaps it was not clear, but when you need to reboot your system, you also need to specifically reboot your material station. The Ultimaker S5 and Material Station are 2 different systems, because due to the drying capabilities of the Material Station it needs to be on all the time and therefor does not reboot/turn off when you just turn off the Ultimaker S5.
Could you elaborate a little bit more on the exact errors you had, how far material loaded into the bowden tubes, how you proceeded and which materials you were using?
With more information we're hopefully able to provide better help! Thank you, and have a great day!
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joestefano 6
I am having the exact same problem. Just installed mine today. I had to unplug it to get it to stop!
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