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Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation


Migael
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Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

When I slice my model in a certain orientation the logo on the outside wall partially dissappears. 

I don't know why this happens. The strange part of it does print the smallest detail of logo.

The dot on the I. 

Can I fix the with a certain slicer setting or is this bug?

Have had this problem with 4.6 so updated to 4.8 but that unfortunately did not fix it. 

 

This image illustrates the problem. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

cura bug.jpg

Edited by Migael
double media
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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    I feel like I can see the embossed text at every angle.  Know that in general it will come out better if the text sticks into the part versus if it sticks out form the part.  If it sticks out then lines that are thinner than cura parameter "line width" times 2 won't print at all.  So for example with 0.4mm nozzle you need the lines in your text at least 0.8mm thick.  Normally.  Alternatively you can click "print thin walls" option in cura which may fix your issue.

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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Sorry the quality is a bit poor I guess.

    Here are some close ups.

    You are able to slice and print much finer details than two times you nozzle diameter.

    As one of my pictures can easily demonstrate.

    To me it is also very strange that orientation of the print cause this behavior of the slicer.

    It seems like a bug to me.

     

    close up horizon.png

    closeu cura vert.png

    Edited by Migael
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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    "The strange part of it does print the smallest detail of logo.  The dot on the I." 

    Does that mean that the model prints correctly with all the detail?

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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    No unfortunately not. 

    The strange part is some layers it prints the logo without any problems even the smallest details.

    Other layers is only prints a flat wall with no sign of the logo.

     

    I ended up using prusaslicer which sliced and printed the model with logo in both orientations.

    So I am quite convinced this a bug or I have messed something up in my settings.  

    I will do a clean install of cura 4.8.0. to see if that maybe will fix it. 

     

    IMG_20210105_082958600.jpg

    Edited by Migael
    double pictures
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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    The orientation thing I can understand.  XY resolution is determined by Line Width while Z resolution is determined by Layer Height.  A .4 nozzle at .4 line width with a .2 layer height will have twice the resolution in the Z.

    Have you tried Adaptive Layers?

    Why not just use Prusaslicer?  Cura is my goto slicer, but I have a lot of slicers installed and play with them from time-to-time.  I don't use the same hammer for everything.

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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Have you verified if your STL-file is solid and error-free? I could imagine that if there would be STL-errors, some things might print well in one orientation, but not in another?

     

    In the beginning I tried designing text in SketchUp, and import that in my designs, because my editor DesignSpark Mechanical did not have a text editor function. And at that time I did not know the work-around via the dimensioning-tool. But SketchUp-text had lots of gaps in its vectors, they did not connect. That caused text to import poorly, and some characters got lost, or would not convert from surface-models into a solid. Surfaces can not be 3D-printed, as they are infinitely thin. It looked a bit similar to what you have, except that I had that in the design phase, not in the slicing phase.

     

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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    @GregValiant Why would the orientation matter? I would expect that the slicer in both scenarios would just slight alter the toolpath in the XY-plane order to form the logo. The diameter of nozzle only dictates the smallest wall you be able to print, however with most printer will be step in order a tenth or hundredth mm and is mostly depends on the (micro)steps of steppermotor(driver) and the size of the pulley. 

    I have not tried adaptive layers but have tried slicing it with different nozzles sizes and layers height which did not alleviate the problem.

    I did use prusaslicer for this model, but I found it quite strange behaviour of the slicer and would like to understand what I did wrong. Or report a bug. I feel that is least I could for using this free software. 

     

    @geert_2 yeah that was also my first thought. Something must have gone wrong with exporting to model to STL. It would not have been the first time that I missed some letters and have updated the model multiple times during the design process. However when I checked the STL the logo was completely there and it did not give me any warnings in Cura or in the windows viewer. 

    After that I reviewed the g-code in which the logo was missing. 

    The next step was obviously trying to slice it again. Which produced the same results. 

    Since I really wanted the logo appear fully on the print I used prusaslicer.

    This produced model with the complete logo using the same stl. 

    So Cura was most likely the cause of my issue.

    Just to be sure I just checked the model again in 3D builder* and meshmixer.

    I also included the stl so feel free to check it out.

     

    So I preformed a clean install of Cura 4.8.0 on my computer and the issue still occurs.

    I am now quite sure this is a bug. 
    I should report this to the github, right? 


    print 3D not 3D Builder

    steunschep versie.stl

    Edited by Migael
    print 3d instead of 3D builder
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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    When I opened the file I received the "Model is not Watertight" warning.  I used the tools in Cura but they didn't help.  With the words horizontal it sliced and everything was there.  When the lettering is vertical it comes out like you show - partial "h", l's are missing, etc. .

    I am in compatibility mode so I don't get the nice representation but it looks like the lower portion of the "h" is gone as well as the serifs on the left side of the upright of the "h".  The "p" has been altered and instead of a radius it is cut straight across.  The missing letters are missing in their entirety rather than just portions being ignored.  That sounds like a model issue as well.  Out of curiosity - did you paste the lettering onto the surface or did you bury them in the main model and just let a bit protrude?

    I have rotated and sliced the model a couple of times and now different letters are missing.  The end "cs" was there and now it's gone and the entire "h" is back.  Horizontal is OK, Vertical is a mess.

     

    EDIT:  The differences occur due to the model rotation.  CCW as you had it is missing some letters.  When rotated CW different letters disappear and other come back.

     

    Yes, GitHub is the proper place for a bug report.  Make sure to include a 3mf file when you fill out the form for the bug report.  Take another look at the model though as there may be something going on there.

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Here is the view in  MeshMixer.  The magenta areas are where MeshMixer has found errors.  When I attempt to fix the errors all the letters disappear.

     

    E.thumb.png.e17740d0465a408b8d984eb3f5918d7b.png

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Hi folks,

     

    This issue I've learned about sometimes before last Christmas..

    I've also thought this was a leakage, -until I loaded the model into Cura 15.04.5. (I'm using this one when thing seems strange). Whith this slicer I've to use Cura 4.3.0 in preview to see how the slicing details become with Cura 15.04.5.

    To my surprise, all the letter in the name "hartplastic" was perfect -but the logo itself was only half made..

     

    Then I've come to think about what @ahoeben said about details in writing letters like this.

    He said use smaller nozzle, -this is the problem..

     

    I'd just tried the model in here, changed from 0,4 mm to 0.25 mm -then all the letters showed up.

    Ofc., I've use Cura 4.8.0 for this and standard fine profile with 0.25 mm nozzle and a S3 printer.

     

    Edit:

    Just forgotten to inform that I'd sliced the model in orientation so the logo and name come out vertically.

     

    Thanks

    Torgeir

     

    Edited by Torgeir
    More info.
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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    This is an ortho view of the "c" in plastic.  This is with a .2 nozzle selected.  That gap makes it look like Cura is not acknowledging that it is part of the body of the model(?) or there is a tiny gap between the model and the letter.

     

    F.thumb.png.d211d4388438644e617747889467e4ce.png

     

    This is also with a .2 nozzle but I've flipped the model 180 into the orientation that Migael shows ("h" is up).  The layer is the part of the "p" that disappeared.  The letter portion is all outside walls.

     

    F2.thumb.png.2db275e0f36c376d816b53ee4a29a075.png

     

    And this is the immediate next layer up.  1 outer wall and 2 inner walls.

     

    F3.thumb.png.54c503475ea86dbeeef83cee9002cb72.png

     

    For my next trick I flipped it 180.  This is the portion of the "P" that was 3 outside walls.  You see that it is now 1 outside wall and 2 inside walls.

    It is now the "c" in plastic that is 3 outside walls and will disappear when printing.

     

    F4.thumb.png.8ec94d6f64ef569bb7e13441e9c755d7.png

     

    I know no one has asked for it but my professional opinion is (drum roll please!)...I don't know.  On the one hand we have a model that appears to have problems.  On the other hand it could be a bug.  There is evidence for both.

     

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Hi Greg,

     

    Sure, but Cura did not report any leak, just a lighter color..  But. hmm

     

    Well, here's a view of it:

    image.thumb.png.e62baa16ab55d866ce31984836d2430e.png

     

    Edited by Torgeir
    Better picture.
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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    The strange thing is that every version slice it different due to this issue..

    So partly leaking no good.  🤪

     

     

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    Posted (edited) · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Yeah, in 4.6.1 with the "h" up almost all the lettering disappears.  With the "h" down there are a couple letters missing.

    Fixing the model....hhmm.

    OK, I went to NetFab and had the model repaired.  Here it is sliced in 4.8.0 with a .4 nozzle.  Orientation doesn't matter.  Everything is there.

     

    G.thumb.png.d1d2fe1159eb7080bd15319158d1a037.png

     

    @Migael, the reason I asked if you buried the lettering into the model is that I do a lot of this and the surface I want the lettering on isn't always flat and may in fact be a compound curve.  Sometimes I want the lettering to flow with the surface and not be planar on top.  When the letters are buried into the model (with enough sticking out to print), there is never a problem having the letters become part of the model.  Sticking them on the surface can result in what happened here.  Moving the letters .01mm into the model may have fixed the problem.

     

    Teamwork.  You have to love it.  It took 5 of us, on at least 2 continents, 9 hours but I think the problem has been identified.  Of course it's already been printed using Prusaslicer but better late than never!

    304534236_steunschepversie_fixed.stl

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Quite often you will need a couple of standard texts, such as a logo and a copyright notice. I make these beforehand and save them as separate designs, so I can always re-use them.

     

    Then, for surface text (=raised or recessed) I load the text-file and move it into the right location of the design. For raised text I union it with the model, so text plus model are only one solid. For recessed text I subtract it from the model, which again leaves me with only one solid, with cut-out characters.

     

    But I do the fusing only at the very end, after I am sure the text and model are fully correct. Otherwise it is harder to edit. It is best to keep them separate as long as possible. And save the intermediate model before fusing everything, so you can easily revert.

     

    For watermark text, thus hollows sitting in a model, I just move the text into the model, without subtracting. This works well (at least in DesignSpark Mechanical), because the text is totally sitting in the model, without any intersections of text and surface. In this way I can easily access and modify the text later on, by just hiding the main model, so only the inside text remains visible. If I would fuse everything, this would not be possible, and it would be very hard to select and edit parts of the text.

     

    A few examples:

     

    Watermark text as separate solids in a model. Not fused with the model, nor subtracted from it. It are all separate solids. In real life, you cannot move objects into each other like this, but you can in a 3D-editor. So now I can access and edit the red text easily, by temporarily hiding the blue ruler. Upon exporting to STL, DesignSpark Mechanical correctly subtracts the text from the model, and it slices and prints correctly.

    bfx_sleutelh_4c.thumb.jpg.5830fdd4084cb22e9349692d1a3c0b1c.jpg

     

    Raised text (but in a recessed surrounding area, so it does not protrude above the model). Here the text is fused together with the model, and it is just one solid. Fusing is done with a "union" or "combine" math-function, or whatever it is called in your editor.

    recessed_raised_test1.thumb.jpg.4e417f7afec69b4e477b072529a1ed64.jpg

     

    This is the separate copyright-text used for the above model. The text caps height is 3.5mm, leg-width is 0.5mm, and height is 1.0mm. But usually I want the text to be only 0.2mm raised, so I sink it 0.8mm into the model, prior to fusing it.

    c_design_geert_k.thumb.jpg.891ee4c6d5630f93f8a360e6aff7acc2.jpg

     

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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Wooh guys thank you so much for figuring out this issue and repairing my file!

    Awesome!😁
    I am totally new to meshmixer just downloaded it for this file.

    Probably should look up some tutorials about it. 

    I also did check the file not in 3D builder but in print 3D(windows). 
    Just downloaded 3D builder which also said the were some errors in my file.

    So sorry about that.

     

    So I guess I am doing something wrong in my design software (fusion 360).

    In which make the extrusion of a SVG-file inserted into a sketch.

    I did not bury the letter into the original model will try this to if the creates model with no leakage.

     

    I still do find the behaviour of the slicer a bit quirky.

    Should I still report it to  the github?  


    Really appreciate the effort you guys put in to this. So thanks again ❤️ 

     

     

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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    I am not part of the Ultimaker team, nor software development, so I can't say what you should do.

     

    However, I think it would be best if you get more familiar with your 3D-editors and STL-export first, so you can always produce technically correct and "water-tight" STL-files (=no gaps between the STL-triangles). As soon as your STL-files are error-free solids, and you still feel there is room for improvement in the slicers, then of course you could write a report. This gives you a lot more chance that it will be welcomed and considered.

     

     

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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    I'm not part of the team either.  I find that working on problems like this does increase my understanding of the software and printing process.  In this case, I couldn't get MeshMixer to fix the problem (but it did find it).  I hadn't used NetFab before and it worked well.  It is an AutoDesk site and you need an account.  It's painless.

     

    I've written up a couple of bug reports but they were cut and dry.  One of them the team was already aware of so they rolled it into the previous report.  This one, you can write it up, but with a faulty model involved they won't be able to reproduce the problem and it will fall by the wayside.  So writing this one may be an exercise in futility.

     

    Good luck - and yes, no more surface mounts.  Bury the letters even if it's only .a fraction of a mm.

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    Posted · Logo on outside wall disappearing when slicing in certain orientation

    Yeah it is also not really bug but more a user error. 😅

    I also figured out the core problem.

    I used the wrong extrude function in fusion 360 (create a new body as opposed to join) and as you said @GregValiant basically stuck letters on top.

    Now I fixed it💪

    Many thanks you guys have taught me a lot!

    cues *Figure it out*

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