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Refund issue

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I made mistake and ordered Ultimaker + directly from Netherland, then I wanted to change it to get it from local US agent... Now I am waiting 4 weeks for a simple refund and no correspondence. Did anybody had the same issue?

 

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I made mistake and ordered Ultimaker + directly from Netherland, then I wanted to change it to get it from local US agent... Now I am waiting 4 weeks for a simple refund and no correspondence. Did anybody had the same issue?

 

Yep.

I had to dispute through paypal, then i got a response right away, telling me Im getting refound next week, so time will tell.

If you didn't pay through paypal, you're out of luck. Maybe if you contact your credit card company. At least for my case they didnt answer to my tickets.

You can always try and PM Sander on this forum or see if theres any other employees that don't work for support on IRC or the chat room, they can forward the ticket to the support. that have helped me a few times. :)

So for some reason, it's the people that don't work as support that do the support.. weird thing :) Hope you get your money back soon.

 

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I ordered mine direct and it was shipped from the Memphis base. Showed up exactly a week after I ordered it.

As far as correspondence goes, I got a reply from the US branch about 2x faster than from the mothership. Four weeks seems a little excessive for no reply. I might send them a follow up or call. My .02

Good luck!

 

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Yep.

I had to dispute through paypal, then i got a response right away, telling me Im getting refound next week, so time will tell.

If you didn't pay through paypal, you're out of luck. Maybe if you contact your credit card company. At least for my case they didnt answer to my tickets.

You can always try and PM Sander on this forum or see if theres any other employees that don't work for support on IRC or the chat room, they can forward the ticket to the support. that have helped me a few times. :)

So for some reason, it's the people that don't work as support that do the support.. weird thing :) Hope you get your money back soon.

 

Well, I did pay through PayPal and I did dispute and they replied back quickly and said they are going to refund me. After 10days I got a cancel order and credit invoice and no refund and no correspondence since. I want the money back to put order in the US. I really don't know why should it take this much time for a simple pre-order cancelation which was not shipped?! This is weird!

 

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How do we place an order with a USA agent? When I click the shopping link the Ultimaker is listed in Euros and am afraid if I complete the transaction I will be purchasing from the Netherlands instead of my local USA site, recommendations?

 

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You can buy from makershed. Their store lets you know if they are in stock or not.

If you buy from makershed you get the same support as if you buy directly from UM.

Or you can send a direct message to Simon here as he is the head of UM USA:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/user/341-illuminarti/

I'm not sure if 100% of UM2's bought in USA are built in USA but the percentage should get to 100% at some point if not there already. It might be for example that makershed is 100% dutch made. Simon could tell you the answer.

 

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Thanks for the reply Gr5. I checked out makersheds website and they appear to only have the Ultimaker 2. I am not opposed to purchasing an Ultimaker 2, but its $1000 more than the Ultimaker+ and I have not been able to find information describing the "functional" differences between the Ultimaker 2 and Ultimaker+.

I sent Simon an email regarding purchasing an UM in the USA, hopefully he will get back to me soon. In the mean time just need help deciding which Ulimaker I should get...

 

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I guess its a good idea to know what would be an ETA of refund. Did anybody ever get a refund? Can you at least share your experience so other people know how much they expect to wait until they get the money back?

 

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Ok I called them today to see what's the status. I am surprised that somebody picked up right away! But the same old nonsense. "We have sent the request to the financial department and waiting for their feedback!". They treat "financial department" as some third party unknown blackbox entity and blame everything on them. They don't have any ETA. If I knew this, I wouldn't attempt buying from them. Its unfortunate as they have built a good reputation by creating a big community. They are ruining it like this...

 

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Companies, like Ultimaker, has outsourced their accounting. They do the accounting work propably once a month. It is bit different if company has financial department of their own. At least in Finland, accounting companies also charges per invoice. That cost is easily 2,5 euros each, which is something like 3,5 dollars. I asked for refund also at the spring because I noticed three days after placing an order that I can get UM2 from London in 5 days instead of 10 weeks. I got the refund after a month or so. But if customer f..k's up the order, it is not company's fault. Refunding causes also extra costs and Ultimaker didn't charge them from me. So, I think that I got good service. Not very fast, but good.

Ilkka

 

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Companies, like Ultimaker, has outsourced their accounting. They do the accounting work propably once a month. It is bit different if company has financial department of their own. At least in Finland, accounting companies also charges per invoice. That cost is easily 2,5 euros each, which is something like 3,5 dollars. I asked for refund also at the spring because I noticed three days after placing an order that I can get UM2 from London in 5 days instead of 10 weeks. I got the refund after a month or so. But if customer f..k's up the order, it is not company's fault. Refunding causes also extra costs and Ultimaker didn't charge them from me. So, I think that I got good service. Not very fast, but good.

Ilkka

 

Thanks for clarification. But that's not general attitude. I guess it makes sense from their perspective but it will tarnish their reputation regardless. I would personally be happily to pay even 5$ to get hold of my 1600$ to buy printer somewhere else. Even that's not an issue! If they say refund takes 1month I am happy. The problem is that they don't say it and there is no ETA. This is not a good online business practice. Also, accounting has nothing to do with payments. Accounting responsibility is to audit and keep things in check for shareholders and tax which normally is annually or quarterly. Refunding and canceling invoice generally should be done by customer service with some supervision by a supervisor or manager to authorize them.

 

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Companies, like Ultimaker, has outsourced their accounting. They do the accounting work propably once a month. It is bit different if company has financial department of their own. At least in Finland, accounting companies also charges per invoice. That cost is easily 2,5 euros each, which is something like 3,5 dollars. I asked for refund also at the spring because I noticed three days after placing an order that I can get UM2 from London in 5 days instead of 10 weeks. I got the refund after a month or so. But if customer f..k's up the order, it is not company's fault. Refunding causes also extra costs and Ultimaker didn't charge them from me. So, I think that I got good service. Not very fast, but good.

Ilkka

 

10 weeks? We have UM2's on stock as far as I know.

Refunds suck. For everyone. There are a lot of parties involved. In case of paypal, it's easy (as the dispute option pretty much puts all the shit at our side, where it should belong IMHO)

Now, if you are in Europe, be sure to give support a call, and be nice to them. Then they are more then happy to help you when you are nice to them. I talk to the support girls quite often in the train to work, they have lots of work on their hands. And they cannot do refunds themselves, so refunds take quite a lot of time sadly.

(It has to go to finance, finance has to double check if nothing has been shipped, if the payment is correctly done, stuff, then they have to schedule it for refund, which only happens once every 2 weeks when all external payments are done. The the banks also take their sweet time. And that's just what I know, most likely there is more involved)

As for ordering from different locations.

USA: "North American customers can simply order their 3D printer from Ultimaker.com today to enjoy the quicker and more cost-effective shipment"

England: http://www.imakr.com/ is our official reseller I think. (Hallway talk is about some issues with our UK based reseller. Do not know any details. Most likely said too much already :smile: )

Germany: https://www.igo3d.com/ is our official reseller, I know for 100% sure.

I know work is being done to have the general shop work better so that it redirect the sales to the proper locations. But this will most likely take a few months before it's ready.

 

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Thanks to SandersVG and also customer service follow ups, I ultimately got my refund today! So Its roughly 1.5months.

 

Congrats. I got mine yesterday aswell. Only took 3-4 weeks here though.

No idea what the deal is. At my job, we have 30 days return policy, and we give the money back instant (cash or bank transfer).. No idea why Ultimaker require 1month+ for items they havent event shipped yet.

 

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No idea why Ultimaker require 1month+ for items they havent event shipped yet.

 

It was explained in excruciating detail above.

 

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It was explained in excruciating detail above.

 

Well - kind of. When I read Daid's message, I didn't understand what all the time is needed for. It probably takes a day or two to check how much was money was received and what needs to be refunded - OK. If the company is not in complete chaos, it shouldn't take more than an hour to check whether something was shipped already. Bank transfers very seldom take more than 3-4 days.

The only thing Daid detailed that takes considerable time is waiting for the next batch of external payments to be made. (I wonder what "external" means in this context - are there "internal" payments which are easier to make somehow?) This, however, is just showing the low priority of refunds. If you have outsourced your payments and you want to save from costs, chances are the payments are made infrequently. I would have bankrupted my business if I had decided to make payments every two weeks. I don't know if my payments were external, though - but money did leave my account when payments were made ;)

 

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There are parties 'in between' here. That's the main problem. If every party uses a 2 week policy, you're on the 4 weeks easily.

The point isn't that it's hard to fix a single issue. The point is that there never is a single issue of anything. If we would sell 10 printers a week, you could do all of it freakisly fast. But if you sell hundreds, its a whole other matter. So comparing your speed (as a one person company) with a larger company is unfair.

 

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There are parties 'in between' here. That's the main problem. If every party uses a 2 week policy, you're on the 4 weeks easily.

The point isn't that it's hard to fix a single issue. The point is that there never is a single issue of anything. If we would sell 10 printers a week, you could do all of it freakisly fast. But if you sell hundreds, its a whole other matter. So comparing your speed (as a one person company) with a larger company is unfair.

 

I don't agree. The means should meet a company's needs. If you sell a few hundred printers a week your IT systems and your internal processes should be able to handle this number. For sure you cannot proceed as if you just sell 10 printers a week (which you don't, I'm aware of this). But IMHO a company of the present size of UM should handle the billing and accounting internally ('make or buy' decisions during growth).

And as UM is (luckily!) a fast growing company it should anticipate that the sales numbers may go even up by one order of magnitude. I'm pretty sure they will when especially your work, Nallath, gets the shape of a product being sold. :ph34r:

 

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Another reason why the refund policy is taking this period of time is because just as Dimensioneer mentions, we are a fast growing company.

I don't know if you ever worked in a successful startup, but that basically means every department works at 150% capacity. It is not an excuse, I mean.. thank god we are successful. But it does mean that we have to work very hard to not get behind on things and we kinda have to look back and forward at the same time. (Not getting back but at the same time preparing for growth, etc.)

We understand that it is not ideal but for our financial department it was crucial to have a few structured benchmarks to keep things organized and workable.

At the same time we are working in creating a better and faster policy, but for now this is it.

Working with multiple parties is also a part of the frequency in the current schedule.

If we would process every refund or payment the minute they were initiated nothing would be done at the end of the day..

 

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So comparing your speed (as a one person company) with a larger company is unfair.

 

I never said my business was a one person company. I did refer to "my account" as I was the business owner. A responsible company only sells what it can deliver - and delivery is more than just the box shipped to the customer. This is particularly true when you sell to consumers.

 

I forgot we are talking about refunding and not purchasing. Thus, it would also not be my first priority to optimize that process...

 

I very much disagree. There are lots of reasons why customers (or wannabe customers or lost customers) may need to be refunded. This is one of the critical points where you really need to show your commitment - in any case, it was the customer who first showed his/her commitment by sending you money. If the refunding process is smooth, you'll still get positive remarks and sympathy afterwards - and if you screw up, you'll get screwed.

 

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