PLA + Breakaway Surface Quality Issues

[cthompto 0]

I am trying to implement Breakaway in an academic maker space and I am running into some issues with surface quality.

 

To start:

I am using a UM3 with Ultimaker brand PLA and Breakaway. The machine being used for the test is serviced on a monthly basis and has no other issues.

Slicer settings:

(Default for Cura if not stated)

Layer height: .1

Infill: 40%

Model Extruder: Extruder 1 (PLA)

Support Extruder: Extruder 2 (Breakaway)

Support Z distance: .1

Prime Tower: Enabled

 

I came to these settings after looking through the forums on topics related to Breakaway but my search didn't lead me to anyone with my same issue.

 

Here is an example of the surface issue:

 

The area on the top of the print is what I am concerned about. In all the test prints I have done, this surface warping has occurred to some extent. I have tried Support Z distances between .1 and .3 with prime towers on each print and this continues to happen.

 

Has anyone else had this issue? The rest of the print looks great and I would really love to solve this so that we could use it in our space.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[geert_2 558]

I don't have a dual nozzle printer, so just guessing:

 

When using dedicated support materials like breakaway or PVA, shouldn't the gap between support and model be zero? So that they are squeezed well together for a good bonding?

 

Maybe you could try this on a couple of small test pieces?

 

[cthompto 0]

@geert_2

 

I will give that a try, I have tried these tests now on two machines and I get roughly the same result so it seems like a slicing issue. Thanks for your input!

[Cosomo 1]

Hi,

we are also facing similar problems. In our case added to a bad surface finish it seems that the breakaway penetrates the model. Then when we retire the material it leaves holes, as you can see in the pictures.

We use the standard values in Cura 3.6.0, no changes.

 

 

We are going to try reducing the temp of breakaway: std is 225C, we will try with 220C

[w66ahx 0]

I have exact the same Problem... did you find out anything yet? would be a huge help!

 

regards, a.

[Carla_Birch 116]

The holes in the model can be down to a few thing's so it helps to watch a print and to see if you can see if:

 

1) If filament is flowing at the start of a new layer.

2) if its filament stopping to flow before the end.

 

 

You want to be looking at settings like:

• Prime tower: Do you use one? if not the nozzle is likely not primed ready for a new layer.
• Retraction: Eg is the filament being pulled to far back so its not flowing at the start of the layer. You also have a prime speed setting what says how fast filament is pushed back into the nozzle.

[Torgeir 280]

Hi Folks,

 

This tread is kind of old, but here's at last 3 different issues that can happen with any kind of printer..

 

So, to the first one that's very interesting, cause this is a relatively small round print with an overhang. This problem is not related to the breakaway support, but it is because of to much heat radiation to this part/side of the printed object. As the object is round, you will see that one sector will suffer for lo blast from one of the fan and this is the problem here. This could be cause one fan is not working properly, or just stopped. Also such object may  not have sufficient cooling due to the position of the fan and the fact that the object is very close to the bed. To avoid this latter, the only way is to print with blue tape and heat bed off.

 

The break away should have some distance to the "roof" as it should not stick to hard to the print, so around a millimeter or less is what I'm using -but depend a little of filament type as well.

 

The second print with white PLA (I guess), is something else. This color is the most difficult one to print due to it's color, -white. From the thermodynamics this is well known, object with this color do not radiate it's heat energy as well as the object darker colors. So here it is better to be on the low end of temperature advised by the producer. In this print you see some brownish remains that are in the skin of the object, this also indicates to high temperature.

With a small content of water present in the filament, very small holes might bee seen in your print.

 

Well, this is just about the old issues up there.

 

Thanks

 

Torgeir

 

 

[w66ahx 0]

Thanks Trogeir for your quick reply! I think i figured it out!

At first, I testet the Fans, but they seemed to be working. But thanks your input i was almost sure that it was a cooling problem. I run my UM3 in a Box, which is not very well ventilated, and it was getting warmer over the last weeks, and the dents in my print were always on the same side (still haven't figured out where exactly because my print is round/symmetrical and i always forgot too look before taking it off, i think it's in the back). So i tried leaving the doors open, and printed (as you suggested) without heat bed on blue tape. Now the prints are perfect! THX for your help!

Edited July 3, 2020 by w66ahx

[IRobertI 521]

On 6/30/2020 at 2:25 PM, Torgeir said:

The break away should have some distance to the "roof" as it should not stick to hard to the print, so around a millimeter or less is what I'm using -but depend a little of filament type as well.

Not sure I agree with you here. Breakaway is made to be printed in the same(ish) way as PVA, in direct contact with the material you're trying to support. If you're going to have 1mm distance between support and support-material you might as well use the build material for support and save time and money.

[Carla_Birch 116]

Hi,

I personally always print Breakway with a roof and floor with 0.0 gap because that's how its meant to be printed.

If you find its sticking to hard to PLA or PLA+ than i would wait for the print to cool down a bit more if you are trying to remove when it's still warm.

 

You could also check the manual level of the print bed to make sure the core 2 of not a bit tighter (lower) down then core 1, because this could mean it might be printing abit into the PLA+

[Torgeir 280]

Hi @IRobertI

 

I agree with you here, but the thing is that I've tried to explain the "break away" in general, this since the filament type breakaway from Ultimaker was mentioned a little higher up in this tread before.

 

So, sorry for any confusion..

 

The filament Breakaway from Ultimaker is is a special filament to be used in S3 and S5 variants only. This filament is to be printed as PVA in general, however if it stick to your primary filament you may put "some" more air in between the support and the printed object. I've read some place that one can use (0.1 to 0.27) as space here, but I have never printed with Ultimaker Breakaway filament.

 

Thanks

 

Torgeir

 

[IRobertI 521]

57 minutes ago, Carla_Birch said:

You could also check the manual level of the print bed to make sure the core 2 of not a bit tighter (lower) down then core 1, because this could mean it might be printing abit into the PLA+

Unless you've turned off active levelling, the printer will measure and take care of the height offset between the two cores.

42 minutes ago, Torgeir said:

The filament Breakaway from Ultimaker is is a special filament to be used in S3 and S5 variants only.

To be a bit pedantic, the UM3 can also use Breakaway. The material was launched before the S3 and S5 existed.