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jenschr

Amusing reviews of MB 5th gen, Taz4 & UM2

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Nice reviews :smile:

Brings me up to add a few cents of my recent learnings...

I had the chance to take a look onto the MB Z18.

Our technical design dept. bought it, the decision was based on "biggest build space" and unfortunately not print quality and handling. Recently I was asked to take a look onto it and assist in understanding the process and settings.

first, the printer has a nice, closed design, seems to be sturdy and looks very professional.

BUT:

The first prints were a desaster. Underextrusion everywhere and the raft was very difficult to seperate - mor or less, the prints were damaged because so much force was needed...

We tried several times printing without raft, but this does not work. Bed level procedure is quite easy and nicely guided by the printer controler, we did it twice but it started printing mid air. So currently my colleagues have to use raft.

The SW has also been stripped down for this printer. There is no possibility to set the print temperatures in the SW, very change in settings has to be done via the windows editor.

Next, there is no documentation available which can assist in understanding al the settings, just a small quick start docu.

And finally, the test prints which my colleagues got before buying were made at an Rep2, not the Z18 so they had no chance to see the "real" quality (there was no Z18 on stock at the local distributor).

There are a few nice ideas it it (leveling wizzard, heated camber, dust cover,...) but basically, it does not work as expected - so from my point of view - SCRAP...

Just my two cents...

 

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Thanks for the links :)

I didn't watch the video about the lulzbot (yet).

It's nice too have a review from guys who actually have run the machine a lot, and know what they are doing. I like how complete the review is.

I watched the Makerbot video too... it confirms what i hear and what i read, sad to hear they sell worthless machines i couldn't believe he only made 10 succesfull prints in 4 months (with 7 smart extruders :eek: ), i like how they thank makerbot for the support which is reliable and that's a good point.

About the Z18, i don't have a lot of positive feedback about it either, it's really a shame because the build volume is very interesting

 

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well, the reviews are pretty good :)

and yes, it does confirm everything you hear and see about the makerbots.. have been playing a little bit with a few of them (we have like 10 of them in our company's maker garage) but never able to actually print something since they were always broken..

they look great, their featureset is awesome, the software is awesome, they have a great support staff, everything there is makes this the most awesome printer ever... except the smart extruder. so it doesn't actually print. the idea is also great with the smart extruder to make it very easily servicable but it's just too bad that it doesn't print making it worthless.

 

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Yeah. You can really tell that these guys have experience and what they say about MB confirms what everybody else says on Reddit - the last gen is a catastrophe. I bet you have seen it, but the Netflix documentary "Print the Legend" really tells why this has gone wrong. Nobody like to have a huge countdown to their doom mounted in the office. It also tells why Bre Pettis is no longer the CEO...

 

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I watched those reviews yesterday, and saw Print the Legend a couple of weeks ago.

About the review: Very interesting and they seem experienced.

However, there were a few points about Ultimaker which are addressed a little while ago, so I was thinking maybe they recorded it a few weeks ago or so?

It looks like I see a lot of comparisons (or requests for) between Ultimaker 2 and Lulzbot recently.

Seems like a decent printer.

There are some nice technical features on MBI(5th), however there are some cultural features within the company itself which would make me never want to get involved. (besides loving Ultimaker).

About Print the Legend, very interesting show!

Did anyone else see the ending, past the credentials where Avi decided to make another comment about Formlabs?

All in all it was a very interesting view from the US-side on the 3D Printing scene.

I hoped, maybe just as an intro, the Reprap would get a little bit more attention, since that is where it all really started.

But nonetheless, I really liked watching it, and would recommend it to everyone.

 

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I watched all three videos and wish the bald haired gentleman would stop playing with his hands and work on a sentence without saying "Ummmm" all through it. :) They certainly need to edit the videos better for length, perhaps they can view Barnucles videos as a reference. Concise, to the point, detailed where needed.

Print The Legend was very good. Just amplified why I dislike Makerbot and Bre Pittis. He still thinks he's the most important person in the world of 3D printing. :roll: I like what FormLabs is doing, its more expensive to print with that resin, and a small build plate....but extremely impressive print (I had them send me a sample print....its amazing)

I know some folks who swear by the Lulz since they do print larger stuff, they just have to do it slowly.

Sander: What is your reaction to their comment about the inconsistent PLA from the Ultimaker Store?

 

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About the support, I know. It is an eyesore, and we do our best to improve.

Today I hired a new girl who will expand the team and I am looking for another person.

There are also more structural issues which needs to be resolved, but we are working on those too.

Hopefully this will be a permanent but quick fix to improve our response time.

I do know, and even though I can not say much yet, support-related things are under construction and will be improved significantly.

We are working on working out some problems with stock, with the shop (payments and statuses) and we want to add some features to the forum. A lot of features will remain because we feel it is pretty consistent but some things we want to add. For example a better search option, better dividing of topics and something called gamification.

With the latter we want to add a system to value contribution to the forum / community.

We are considering a few ways to embody this, like a leaderboard based on points or something like badges.

Like, a 'guest blog writer'-badge, a '100-helpful posts'-badge, etc.

What do you all think?

- Would you care if those badges or points could result in a reasonable discount for, for example filaments?

About the PLA, they sounded like they mainly talked about color instead of diameter right?

We do have more then 1 supplier (we are learning, not being dependent on 1 supplier..) so maybe that is why color may be slightly different 1 reel or the next.

Do you all consider that an issue?

To me it never occurred as an issue. I could see if we can those aligned.

 

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For example a better search option

Yes please !!! :mrgreen:

 

We are considering a few ways to embody this, like a leaderboard based on points or something like badges.

Like, a 'guest blog writer'-badge, a '100-helpful posts'-badge, etc.

What do you all think?

- Would you care if those badges or points could result in a reasonable discount for, for example filaments?

 

Usually, I don't like things that create a kind of competition on places which are made for people helping people...

 

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I'm with UltiArjan. If UM looks back through both this forum and the Google group, you'll find that the extreme shipping prices for tiny spare parts are a recurring problem. Due to these, many UM's will stand un-repaired for a long time. It's simply too expensive unless a company is paying the bill.

Say that I want to buy a new Nozzle. This will cost me €32 from Ultimaking Ltd. This in turn drives people to by fake Chinese nozzles on ebay at €3-4 a piece. If you (seemingly) can get 10 nozzles for the price of one (or pay just a tenth) then many will go for that.

Ultimaker should look to Adafruit for how to do shipping! They have a cheaper option, complete with insurance. Shipments arrive safely in nice, small boxes that fit what is being shipped. Orders are out the door the same day they arrive. Adafruit are not the cheapest, but they're also not many times the cost of others. They excel at shipping and quality and that's enough for me to use them over others.

J

 

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Obviously, the last of our intentions would be to spoil it. We want to cherish this culture and environment.

And we want to reward contribution. I don't see anything wrong with that.

It is not a limitation, it is an added dimension. (I thought we all loved added dimensions? ;) )

It will be more like an added layer on the background.

 

Maybe 'leaderboard' is not a good name, but wouldn't it be valuable to display what the most experienced / advanced community members are?

See in what 'category' members are most active?

What are the most popular topics?

Who of the community members also write guest blogs or share a lot of their ideas / prints?

About support, lower shipping costs have always been a topic.

Maybe its not a bad idea to reach out to adafruit to see how they address it.

@ Arjan, we are focussing on the basics.

And a deviation between UMO and UM2 is also part of that, i.e. focussing on the experience of the customer.

 

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With all due respect, your support forum is one of the biggest selling points for the product. Don't mess with "badges" or "rankings". That isn't broken and doesn't need fixing

The search function, however, is badly broken and needs to be addressed.

As others chimed in, its very expensive to get stuff from Europe. I'm not sure the fix for that.

You also announced a partnership with a USA retailer a while back. With "fbrc8"...so, I read your news release, went to their website...and not a whisper of anything to do with Ultimaker. Maybe there's a lot going on behind the scenes. But to this consumer, it looks disorganized and hurried to post something like this. If I could setup a business to resell the Ultimaker brand in the USA, it would be proudly listed all over my website.

Happy to see changes to support.

And let your customers know what's coming up. I am still really mad you guys sold me a kit and offered Ultimaker 2 eight days later. I would've bought that.

Keep making a good product. :)

 

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That isn't broken and doesn't need fixing

 

it may not be fixed if it isn't broken, but it can be improved.

What is wrong with stimulation / motivation?

I am very curious to your point of view, but so far I mainly heard that people aren't jumping out of joy. But without arguments. So why? Because if I know why, perhaps we can find like best of both worlds?

About FBRC8, they are our partner in assembly and service, they are not a sales partner.

So it is different. You can't buy the Ultimaker from them, you can buy it from Dynamism and Makershed for instance.

And yes, there is also still happening a lot behind the scenes..

 

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I guess I feel there's only one mayor problem to solve with the forum, which is that people can't seem to easily find the answer to there questions, resulting in the same questions being asked over and over. If you could find a beter way of grouping and searching, without bringing in (to much) competition and rating it would be perfect IMHO..

But maybe I'm also just to old for "gamification" :mrgreen:

Same goes for the webshop regarding spareparts, if you could find a simple way to better indicate if a component is compatible with UMO / UMO+ / UM2 that would be very helpfull. Maybe just a few simple boxes you can tick while maintaining the shop (tickbox for every printer type) would do it..

 

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i would say the two mayor improvements to the forum (and how did this thread escalate to forum feedback?) would be:

a badge/stamp system that would read something like "Ultimaker approved solution", giving people a direction between answers that are good\right and answers that might not be the best idea

the other improvement would be a better compatible forum.. the quote\multiquote and image addition system is horrible. it works in certain browser, but not in others.. then it breaks at random.. fun.

 

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Because gameification removes morality from the system. It completely nukes it.

I was at a talk from one of the developers of 'spec ops the line' a few years ago at GDC, who explained this pretty well. He make a very compelling argument for not rewarding users (in that case gamers, but same difference) for their actions. Take for example the following situation;

There is a beggar on the street. He needs money. You just got the exact amount of money to buy something you really want. Giving the beggar the money means you can no longer but that item, but you don't really need it in the first place.

At this point, this is a moral decision to either keep the money (I worked for it, I really want it, I don't even know the guy) versus giving it to the beggar (He needs the money to survive).

When you get a reward for giving the money away (say, karma points that give you advantages), the choice is no longer as what you feel is right but something to be optimised. The choice would be; Give money, recieve points, get other cool thing. So your decision making would be; 'Is karma reward better then money reward?' rather than 'Should i help this person'. It's no longer about helping, its about a transaction.

If you want people to help others, this transaction system might work. But it's not without its downsides.

 

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Hi Nallath,

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't fully agree with the situation you described, the decision is always yours, whether you possibly gain something or not.

The entire reward-system is just a thought right now, which you and everyone else can still contribute in to make sure it meets your requirements / expectations.

We are open for that discusion :)

The purpose is to stimulate an active community, and give those recognition who heavily participate and in my opinion adding an extra dimension doesn't make it worse.

And if it does, you can choose to not use the discount if that would make anyone feel better.

BUT... If you want to continue this conversation (about the forum and possible new features), please continue to do it http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/8389-new-improvements-in-the-making/&do=findComment&comment=79130.

I created a new thread so we can stay on topic, and continue this thread about the reviews.

 

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