Bond Tech Versus the New Designed Um2+ Feeder

[bob-hepple 59]

Neotko

Thanks a bit bemused at moment why this has to be done given I downloaded a modded firmware.

But that is me and my learning curve is still developing, no doubt it will enlighten me.

Thank you

[neotko 1,417]

Firmware doesn't overwrite the stored info unless you wipe it all. This way you don't loss the hours used, the settings you did set (if you did ever touch anything like acceleration, etc). This way you don't need to readjust all the details after a firmware update (unless you reset the memory)

[stu_le_brew 42]

@bob-hepple

 

I was also a bit puzzled but now it just works so I am happy anyway

Interestingly the new feeder will pull through end of reel filament that I had decided to throw away as the old feeder could not handle it, the increased torque is what it all about

Edited March 22, 2016 by Guest

[bob-hepple 59]

All

ok I did a simple gcode file

M92 E492.45

M500

G28 ; Home all axes

G1 F3000 X20 Y20 Z20 ; Bring extruder to the front slowly

G28

ran it to printer how can I tell or not?? if the E steps worked is it print and see ???

[eldrick 65]

If you use the TinkerGnome firmware, you can view (and set) it directly on the display...

[bob-hepple 59]

Eldrick

thanks for the reply I have my extruder working now with the correct steps and with TinkerGnomes latest firmware. having a few issues with S3D getting the first layer down seems I'm having to reduce the flow was set at 1.10 now down to 1.0 and probably lower.

[bob-hepple 59]

Eldrick

how you getting on With TinkerGnomes firmware having a few problems trying to get the Pause Print, and then resume, working. it stops ok, but when I try resume print it is printing in the wrong area.

[chrisw 70]

My Bondtech feeders have been in use for almost a month now, and like I said earlier in this thread, I'm really glad I bought two. These things push like crazy.

That said, nothing's perfect for every job, and today I think I found the Achilles heel of the current Bondtech QR model. This problem only seems to manifest when using lots of retracts in short time frame with filament that melts at low temps (PLA).

The motor gets hot when it's retracting repeatedly. Directly attached to the motor is a metal gear box, which acts as a heat sink... and carries the heat further down the line to the final drive shaft. The drive shaft heats up the filament enough to melt PLA and clog the system.

My first experience this morning, while printing a P51 Mustang root wing part from 3dlabprint.com was air printing after about 1 hour of real printing. The cause was this blob at the beginning of the bowden tube. All other clogs ever have been at the nozzle end for me, but this time the drive shaft turned my PLA into a blob and kept pushing til it plugged the tube.

I cleared that problem, then tried the print again with print speed cut in half. That didn't help. Maybe the motor still got hot, and slower speed kept the filament in contact for a longer time with the drive shaft. This is what happened:

Now I'm bypassing a lot of the retracts and hoping the print finishes. I think the Bondtech QR rocks, but to make it more bombproof, I think the next version needs a vertical or horizontal separation between the motor and the final drive.

This airplane root wing print is not an easy one btw, so it is quite a torture test for any feeder i think. The author certainly did a great modeling job, but didn't optimize it for easy printing

[eldrick 65]

Do you have the current to the feeder motor set to 1200ma? (You can check/set with TinkerGnome's firmware.)

If the current is too high, the steppers can warm up pretty quickly, and many people have set theirs up with the stock feeder to increase motor torque and reduce filament slippage.

[chrisw 70]

Do you have the current to the feeder motor set to 1200ma?

 

Yes, It's at 1200ma. I'm running Tinkergnome's FW. Now I'm looking into adding a heatsink or two and a fan or two

[bondtech 25]

Hi @chrissw and thanks for your detailed report!

Are you using Simplify3D or Cura, i discovered that the start-script for Simplify3d when selecting the Ultimaker profile it had a current setting that increased the current for the extrudermotor to 1400 mA.

It is the following row in the starting script.

M907 E1400 ; increase extruder current

You can also decrease the current to 1000 mA if it still is running hot.

/Martin

[chrisw 70]

You can also decrease the current to 1000 mA if it still is running hot.

/Martin

 

Thanks for the info, Martin! I am using S3D, but I had already removed the 'increase extruder current' line from that startup script. Your idea of reducing the current to 1000 mA worked. My printer made it through the entire print with no problems.

That was with the retract speed set to 45 mm/s and with 6 mm retracts. It's a real torture test: I calculated there are approx 15000 retracts in that gcode, spread over approx 16000 seconds. So almost 1 retract per second for 4.5 hours straight.

The 1000 mA setting was a very quick fix. But I always want more, so I tried adding a heat sink to one of my extruder motors. It made it through the same gcode with the extruder current at 1200 mA, and the retract speed increased to 60 mm/s, So maybe a heatsink is only useful for extreme conditions.

Bondtech extruders rock

[bondtech 25]

 

@Chrisw glad you got it working, that was for sure a torture test with that amounts of retracts!

[bob-hepple 59]

All

now have my Bondtech working after a few teething troubles that wasn't down to Bondtech.. I love it !!!!! best thing I bought,, Just did a 6 Hr Print and using the same retract speed in S3d

as Chrisw but distance is 5mm noted the motor was very warm. I also do not use that line in my start up script

 

It is the following row in the starting script.

M907 E1400 ; increase extruder current

would it be better to reduce the current now to be on a safer footing???. ie

M907 E1000 ; motor current

[00D00B 58]

I saw the bondtech working on an other machine couple of weeks ago. It was pretty cool ! I'll maybe get one too for testing it on UM.

I think feeder fixations and motor temperature control must be improved but the system could be totally integrated on UM and get an even better machine !

[chrisw 70]

would it be better to reduce the current now to be on a safer footing???. ie

M907 E1000 ; motor current

 

That's a good question. I think it depends on how you're going to use your UM2.

I like keeping the current set to the original 1200 because it seems like it should do more at 1200. But so far I have no evidence of shortcomings with it set to 1000. My extruder performed well when I turned down the power. It still got quite warm, but not enough to soften PLA any longer.

The "small" heatsink that I posted earlier keeps the temperature down for high speed printing with the current set to 1200. But it still gets pretty warm. That aluminum heat sink came off an old motherboard. From that same bin of old parts I also pulled a copper heat sink with heat pipes. It may be overkill, but the motor never gets more than lukewarm with that beast installed. Here's a size comparison of the two:

[00D00B 58]

I've received mine today ! Let's play

I was wondering : why do not just put a fan right on the nema ? Or at least a combination between passive and active cooling at the right size because your heatsink is really huge ! It's starts to be quite "disturbing" having this to your machine...

[chrisw 70]

It's starts to be quite "disturbing" having this to your machine...

 

It was easy to add these free passive devices, and completely silent without a fan. Plus I didn't need to open the electronics compartment again this way, or tinker with custom fan selection and installation.

[00D00B 58]

Maybe but I think that a 40x40 nothbridge heatsink with its fan would be more effective.

Plus if we add thermal paste between the nema and the heatsink we can keep it totally cool whatever we do !

[sipi2 0]

Hello, I like the idea with the small heatsink and fan on stepper motor. But I'm not familiar how to connect fan to the printer. Can somebody advise me, where to connect the fan?

Thanks

[trevorjtclarke 3]

Here's a size comparison of the two:

 

Did you build a stacking rig?! Looks awesome!

[chrisw 70]

Did you build a stacking rig?! Looks awesome!

I went the easy route and just bought a pair of these:

Ultimaker 2 Top

DIY plans are available on Youmagine I believe

[eldrick 65]

For anyone concerned about increased noise from the Bondtech feeder, just put 2-3mm of damping material between the mounting plate and the Ultimaker. Felt or sorbothane will work well.

I hadn't realized how much noise the extruder motor (OEM or Bondtech) transmits to the frame of the machine. With this tweak, my UM2 is quieter than it was originally.

[bondtech 25]

Hi @eldrick, in the latest edition of the upgrade package i do supply a damping plate to place between the mount and the rear panel of the printer, it is currently printed in NinjaFlex but I am looking for better options. As you say it makes a big difference with the sound level.

Thanks for sharing!

[00D00B 58]

Hi @eldrick, in the latest edition of the upgrade package i do supply a damping plate to place between the mount and the rear panel of the printer, it is currently printed in NinjaFlex but I am looking for better options. As you say it makes a big difference with the sound level.

Thanks for sharing!

 

How do you use it exactly ?

I've bought thermal pad. It will help to dissipate the heat and can also reduce the noise.

In the other side I've a heatsink with a fan, it maintains a cool temperature but that's noisy...