This is awesome research @gr5 and very helpful in determining what specific material should be used for the corresponding application.
Thanks. These are very interesting data, and a very good starting point for selecting materials. Maybe this thread should be sticky?
Actually, I am a bit surprised at the positions of Taulman 618 nylon , and colorFabb XT and HT.
A suggestion: as you accumulate data, maybe you could add a sort of "error bars" to the values in the second graph (with green, yellow, and orange ovals)? Both horizontal and vertical lines. These error bars would indicate the useful range. Then for example PLA might sit at 210°C, but its error bar might go from 190 to 220°C. While another material at 210°C might only go from 205 to 215°C. This would give an idea of the useful range of the material, and how critical temperature settings are.
- SandervG pinned this topic
4 minutes ago, geert_2 said:Maybe this thread should be sticky?
ok!
Also, good suggestion about the range bars!
The "softening temp" is the least accurate because it's usually glass temp (which can be less than 0C for something like nylon or ninjaflex which is useless info) or heat deflection temp which is also sometimes useless. I'm pretty sure the softening temp is wrong for some of the items in the green area but I don't have any samples so I don't know for sure.
Most of these materials did indeed come with a printing range and so I picked a temp near the middle. Some ranges were tight (e.g. 210-220) and some were loose like PLA (180-230). It would indeed be great to have a min/max printing range pair of columns.
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Okay I posted an interactive version. You can zoom in and hover tip shows all the data for each material. Here:
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kmanstudios 1,120
17 minutes ago, gr5 said:Okay I posted an interactive version. You can zoom in and hover tip shows all the data for each material. Here:
Dang! Yer on fire lately
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- 4 weeks later...
Great work, thank you. Would love to see this as a pdf.
It seems as though PETG is missing from these charts, unless it's there with some other name. I recently purchased a spool of it to try and was wondering how it stacked up against other materials.
Great job on this by the way.
- 3 weeks later...
Ultimaker PC filament (black - white) with only 60 degree bed ?
- SandervG unpinned this topic
- 3 weeks later...
Amazing great work! Thank's a lot
On 3/5/2018 at 3:36 AM, Gigi said:Ultimaker PC filament (black - white) with only 60 degree bed ?
Fixed it on my website just now. Thanks! Table above is still wrong - not so easy to create the table again as the data is all in json format now. Although I might write some code to output it into a table some day.
Just to let you know that I'm working with an investigator from Exeter University to do some serious tensile testing on around 20 variants of a standardised design. We will look at four contrasting materials (PLA, Nylon, Resin and a strong co-polymer), but also at varying print orientations, degrees of infill, infill patterns and so on. At the end of this, I would hope we can produce a guide to the ways of improving tensile strength, starting from PLA at 20% infill, which is the standard entry level setting for most of us. If people are still monitoring this strand, I'll feed results back into it.
Hi @FalmouthLouis , that is great news! I would be very curious to read those findings. Looking forward to the results, thanks for sharing!
SandervG - I'm interested in the views of you guys in Ultimaker as to how you think the various infill designs will affect tensile strength. Assuming infill density is kept to 20%, which infill design should be the weakest and which the strongest? Do you have any other expectations as we play around with the options? By all means feed me with any questions that you think we could throw some light on. My colleague has produced two variants of a testable design - one 8mm deep, one 10 mm deep. We can afford to test something like 24 variants of these designs. What issues do you guys think we could most profitably test within that 24 variant constraint? Remember that we need to focus on issues which matter to real life practitioners like myself and their real life clients. This all started because I am doing a bit of printing for the marine sector and I needed to be very clear in my head about how best to give commercial clients like that the structural toughness they might need, without going over the top in terms of printing unnecessarily in exotic materials.
kmanstudios 1,120
I will be keeping an eye on this.
This sounds very interesting. I am curious as to which brand will be used for testing.
kmanstudios: probably Faberdashery for PLA, Colorfabb for Nylon, 3DGBIR for an advanced co-polyester. Resins probably through the Photocentric setup. The point is that there are now so many filaments out there that it's pointless trying to be scrupulously precise about the differences between filament A and filament B. We want to be pretty precise when charting what happens as we experiment with different print setups using one filament (probably PLA since that is what most of us start of using). When comparing the different materials, we just want to be able to give a general sense that shifting from PLA to the likes of Nylon will produce a perfomance improvement of around so much.
If you have views about brands etc, feel free to make suggestions. Within our various constraints (financial, plus the fact that my Exeter University colleague needs to finish her work by a specific date) we are trying to make this exercise as useful as possible to general users as well as the community who come on to this site.
I'm an Ambassador for CREATE Education, so am part of the Ultimaker community, hence my willingness to work with 3DGBIRE.
kmanstudios 1,120
I would hope that there is a disclaimer then that you used certain brands and how you feel that brands would not matter that much. To buffer that, I would test two brands just to settle that theory. People settle on brands for a lot of perceived reasons and this could lead to an idea of lack of thoroughness or even bias. It would seem that brands would submit for testing; at least their small sample rolls. Also, do not forget the new TPLA's out there. (Tough PLA).
Understood. However, we probably only have 24 variants to play around with, so we might only be able to do something like test out three differing PLA @ 20% infill versions which would at least give a sense of how different brands of PLA can produce different results (or not). Whatever we're doing is not going to allow anyone to claim that brand X can out-perform its competitors.
I agree that brands don't matter that much after testing many different materials. I built my own strength/strain machine that uses these "bow tie" parts to test. It agrees with the published data pretty well. A few thoughts.
1) For the tensile test - infill will make a HUGE difference. Also when I build these bow ties I set shell/wall width to 1 meter to be sure it's 100% shell and not cross hatch infill. This way the filament "grain" won't affect the results. For ABS if you print the bow tie vertically and if you aren't an expert at ABS layer bonding the part will be much weaker when you pull it apart (ultimate tensile strength).
But this infill on tensile parts is not interesting to mechanical engineers. Normally you don't need 100% infill to make a part stronger. normally it doesn't help. Take a beam for example. You can drill lots of holes through it "sideways" without hurting the strength. So if you are going to test different infill patterns you shouldn't be doing these butter fly tensile tests but instead maybe you should be doing flexural testing. In flexural testing the infill pattern shouldn't make much difference on a beam. In other words I suggest you *always* do 100% infill and don't do it at an angle, do it with walls set to 1 meter so it's a concentric infill.
The editor got strange so I had to start a new post...
2) 8mm versus 10mm deep shouldn't make much difference. I think it's a waste of your time. You should hopefully get the exact same results regarding tensile modulus, ultimate strength, elongation at break, etc. Hopefully you have a proper stress/strain tester. If not you might want to build the one I built for about $200 in parts. When calculating modulus and strength you are taking into account the cross sectional area of the part. So the 10mm part will have a larger cross section and be stronger and it should all work out. In fact any errors between the two results are probably air gaps - areas of the part where there was air instead of plastic. 10mm should be more accurate. But at some point the part is too strong for the machine doing the testing. I do about 6mmX6mm area because my machine only goes up to 300 pounds force and my parts tend to break at around 100 pounds force (sorry for the imperial units - I usually think in metric but sometimes...).
3) You might want to print some parts vertically but really, if your results are different than horizontal by more than 10%, well then you aren't printing the part right. Nylon and ABS and PETG don't always have good layer bonding and you need to turn the fans down to the lowest setting or probably off and also cover the front and top of your printer when printing everything other than PLA.
4) PLA has a property that you won't be able to measure with a normal machine - it bends with time. So if you make a chain link and hang a heavy weight on that chain link, over many months it will stretch out - it will "neck" (it will get thinner) more and more until it breaks. It might last a month, or it might last a year, but for brutal environments (marine?) where it is under constant load, PLA is not the best choice sometimes. Anything other than PLA should be fine. Like nGen/PET. So if you use it on a boat to hold a door closed (a latch) pla is fine. If you use it as a part in a winch or a cam cleat it will fail if it is under a calm but steady load for weeks at a time.
I really hope you publish your stress/strain graphs. I'm very disappointed that these manufacturers publish the modulus on their material but not the graph. The curve looks nothing like metals - there is no obvious elastic region (straight line on the graph) that transitions to a plastic region (more curved). Instead, it's almost all curved so the tensile modulus is really only relevant and useful in the first 5% of the graph. It's a bit misleading. So if you just plugged only the modulus and yield strength into software that calculates where a part would fail - PLA and these other plastics are actually MUCH stronger when used for example as a beam because they bend more than you'd think such that they are tougher than you would think. When people try to get the modulus through the flexural method you get a different answer, probably because of the curve shape. In theory whether you measure Young's Modulus through the tensile method (your bow ties) or the flexure method (like breaking a pencil) you should get the same result but in practice you get different results. Not that it matters much as engineers usually design well beyond where something will break.
Having the entire stress/strain graph is much more useful and interesting.
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gr5 2,234
Most (maybe all) of these tests were perfomed on a printed part shaped like a bow tie but they were printed by different companies and using different printers. The UM filaments were all printed by UM so you'd have to talk to them, lol. Mostly each manufacturer printed the parts and sent them off to be tested or they had their own machines. Anyway each company chose different nozzle sizes and layer heights and so on. I've printed these "bow ties" myself and the best results come when you make the thickness a ratio of the nozzle width and you do all shell (no infill). Thick layer heights (e.g. 0.2mm or more) and large nozzles (0.8) might give slightly stronger results but I suspect most companies used their default nozzle of the printer that was handy so probably mostly 0.4mm or 0.5mm nozzles.
More data to come! Watch this space, lol.
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