Ultimaker 3 upgrade kit

[craftee 19]

So i am an ultimaker 2 owner, and bought the damn thing because ultimaker assured there would be a dual extrusion kit for the UM2. I made a post earlier this year and you guys said that it was not possible to get dual extrusion. so seems like releasing UM3 is a slap to the face of all UM2 owners. that being said, will you release a dual extrusion upgrade kit for UM2 owners?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Guest

[IRobertI 521]

No, there will not be an upgrade kit. And even if there was, you would not want to pay the price, as it would be very expensive because of the amount of parts you would need to replace. As well as the time needed to do all the mods to the mechanics. It's not just a matter of doing a head transplant.

No one is more sorry than Ultimaker that dual extrusion never worked on the UM2. Of course they wanted to release it, that's how they make money. And they tried, they tried very hard and it just never worked well enough to be released (I tested a couple of prototypes and well... it didn't work very well). Yes, it sucks, but would you have been less angry if you got an upgrade that didn't work?

[craftee 19]

At a glance it looks like an upgrade kit would be relatively easy since the core design of the ultimaker hasnt changed. all the necessary hardware mounting seem to be there, so i dont see what could be so difficult. furthermore, i dont even have the option to even try to upgrade it myself since ultimaker doesnt make the parts available.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

i dont even have the option to even try to upgrade it myself since ultimaker doesnt make the parts available.

Indeed I don't think you'd get any UM3 part right now, but in general genuane ultimaker parts are real easy to buy, you can get every single  bit ... and if a part is not listed you look up the itemnumber on the BOM (on github)  and you can still order it...

I don't know any other company doing this so well...

http://www.makerpoint.nl/nl/3d-printen/upgrades-parts/ultimaker/ultimaker-2/

*normally Ultimaker puts the design files and BOM of a machine on github 6 months after release of a machine

Edited October 19, 2016 by Guest

[Daid 306]

Posted more details in another topic. But it comes down to 2 things:

a) The UM3 was planned as the UM2.1 like... 3 years ago? We really really wanted this as an upgrade. But it's not feasible due to our most important requirement "only release something if it's up to the task"

b) While it looks almost the same from a distance. Almost every component that is worth something has changed. From electronics to printhead.

You are free to collect the right parts and build dual in your UM2 yourself. I know that it can work, but it is a lot of tinkering to get working right. Also, be careful with PVA. We didn't engineer a different hotend for that without a reason.

[drayson 75]

Basically, we should not reduce al the nice gizzmos of the UM3 just to the dual print. There are tonns of nice things on it, BUT...

To apply just a plain head with core support, but without supporting all the electronics/intelligent features might work with of course a lot of thinkering... So just porting the plain head with the (mechanical?) nozzle lift and "stupid" cores...

maybe a aftermarket option... we will see... :-)

[IRobertI 521]

The connection to the board is completely different for the head (it's a single connector) and it communicates over i2c. So you would also need the new control board + the other new board + custom firmware to make up for the differences.

[drayson 75]

Ok... understood...

But I meant, jut to use the mechanical setup... and a stupid connector for heater, sensor and fan cables...

I guess if it is possible to mount a e3d on an UMO, it is also possible to port the mechanical parts of the UM3 to it... Worst case change the orientation if the print head or make adaptors to make it work (as for the UM2 head on an UMO).

The electronics and related features of course are to be kicked out... Just a stupid connector for the heater and sensor cables. Heater specs needs to be checked, and the sensor type (PT100 amplifier board from e3d?), but thats something possible...

It´s not about the intelligence I´d like to port, it´s about the basic setup. Everything else can be set via CURA...

Could work, but it´s a lot of thinkering... :-)

And of course, it´s just thinking... only ideas in my weired head :-)

Edited October 19, 2016 by Guest

[Daid 306]

Basically, we should not reduce al the nice gizzmos of the UM3 just to the dual print. There are tonns of nice things on it, BUT...

To apply just a plain head with core support, but without supporting all the electronics/intelligent features might work with of course a lot of thinkering... So just porting the plain head with the (mechanical?) nozzle lift and "stupid" cores...

maybe a aftermarket option... we will see... :-)

 

It might work, but it requires some serious engineering effort, and you will get very sub-optimal results. For example, the location of the switching bay differs from machine to machine, so that needs machine calibration.

Don't expect this from us, else you will be disappointed. We learned from the UMO that having too many different machines out there is a nightmare for support (from both a service side as well from a software side)

[drayson 75]

Don't expect this from us, else you will be disappointed. We learned from the UMO that having too many different machines out there is a nightmare for support (from both a service side as well from a software side)

 

Don´t panic, of course, I don´t expect it from Ultimaker :-) You did a great job on it...

It was just a brain game as usual when something new appears and the budget is low...

Nevertheless, understanding the mechanism is the first step...

[avogra 68]

I think that for dual printing, the options from the community (foehnsturm or crema) are much easier to implement and maybe even better suited for an UM2 upgrade. At least i don't see, what the hazzle of porting a UM3 head could offer me over those solutions.

[BrayChristopher 36]

Even if I couldn't use the dual extrusion feature, I would love to have the new print head module.

My biggest complaint with the Ultimaker 2 is how hard it is to change out the PTFE coupler. I could be wrong, but it looks like the new head makes this very easy.

[meduza 191]

 

@BrayChristopher, if you have not already done so, contact your local reseller about buying a rigid spacer and the TFM from the UM2+ instead of swapping to a new PTFE (if you have a non-plus UM2) the next time you need to change it out, it is not very expensive and the new TFM lasts a lot longer.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Guest

[craftee 19]

Indeed I don't think you'd get any UM3 part right now, but in general genuane ultimaker parts are real easy to buy, you can get every single  bit ... and if a part is not listed you look up the itemnumber on the BOM (on github)  and you can still order it...

I don't know any other company doing this so well...

http://www.makerpoint.nl/nl/3d-printen/upgrades-parts/ultimaker/ultimaker-2/

*normally Ultimaker puts the design files and BOM of a machine on github 6 months after release of a machine

 

Well i still cant purchase the new extruder assembly without purchasing the entire kit (which comes with things i dont need). Yes certain replacement parts are available, but other parts are not. I simply want ultimaker to offer the parts individually, thats all

[neotko 1,417]

They do. Check the github ultimaker 2 + BOM or ask your reseller for the feeder parts. You can buy a full feeder part bu part

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Well i still cant purchase the new extruder assembly without purchasing the entire kit (which comes with things i dont need). Yes certain replacement parts are available, but other parts are not. I simply want ultimaker to offer the parts individually, thats all

 

where you say "extruder assembly" what do you mean? the feeder? I could buy one (in loose parts) from Makerpoint. I think the idea is still that the feeder will become available as an separate assembled part. Any update @SandervG

[SandervG 1,521]

If you contact your reseller you should be able to request just the single feeder. ( I am not convinced buying it in separate parts is the only way to go. I think ready and assembled should also be an option.)

[elnadav12 3]

Hi. I decided to buy an Ultimaker 2 about a year ago because of the quality, upgradability, open source, great look and many recommendations. I have many problems like under extrusion, material grinding and more....

Half year later, Ultimaker released the UM2+ that solved all these problems...

Many others including me purchased the 2 because Ultimaker promised dual extrusion! I really want to upgrade my printer, and I think that most people will agree to pay around 500-1000$ for an upgrade kit which will solve all of the 2's problems (including the annoying always on fan) and will add dual extrusion, instead of selling the UM2 and buying the um3 which will cost more.

The whole Ultimaker community has been waiting for that since the UM2 announcement and you promised!

Edited December 1, 2022 by elnadav12
grammer

[meduza 191]

really wanna upgrade my printer, and i think that most of the people, will agree to pay around 500-1000$ for a upgrade kit

It they did a upgrade kit from UM2 to UM3 it would most certainly not be 500$-1000$... (the UM2+ upgrade kit is 500$, and this upgrade would be substantially more), it would be more along the lines of 2500$ i would guess since so many parts have changed, and it would be a very time consuming install.

I would suggest that you sell your UM2 and get a UM3 instead if you want good dual extrusion.

[elnadav12 3]

meduza said:

It they did a upgrade kit from UM2 to UM3 it would most certainly not be 500$-1000$... (the UM2+ upgrade kit is 500$, and this upgrade would be substantially more), it would be more along the lines of 2500$ i would guess since so many parts have changed, and it would be a very time consuming install.

I would suggest that you sell your UM2 and get a UM3 instead if you want good dual extrusion.

elnadav12 said:

really wanna upgrade my printer, and i think that most of the people, will agree to pay around 500-1000$ for a upgrade kit

 

To upgrade the 2 to 3 you need an additional stepper (20$-50$), perhaps a different controller (333$) the new head - maybe 120$ and the plastic part that changes the height of the extruder

I have no need for the smart spool holder... with some profit it should be less than 1000$!

Edited December 1, 2022 by elnadav12
grammer

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Bit funny how people look at printers so different as to other products

I don't really understand why people think a products price is made up only by it's parts? Have you any idea what the components price of a high-end phone is compared to it's retail price? Do you write letters to Apple/Samsung why you can't get there products for the components price? Don't think so ......

[Melka 57]

Well, Apple products are not open source, so I guess people wrongly assume that Ultimaker is not a common company.

Ultimaker's parts are well made but selling a replacement UM2 glass bed at 30 euros where you can have the same thing in a hardware store for 3 euros is a bit strange.

Of course we pay for R&D, though an UM2 replacement motherboard at 350 euros is quite harsh.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Guest

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

@Melka: Can you really have for 3 euros in a French hardware store a borosilicate glass with exact the right dimensions for your Ultimaker (length, width and thickness) with rounded edges (not only rounded in x-y direction but also in z direction) with a 'attention warm' warning sticker on it (yes, that one has to be on it if you are a manufacturer!), wrapped in plastic with protective plastic wedges over each corner? If yes, please send me the address of that hardware store; I'll immediately buy a few there.

Please don't get me wrong, I also think that Ultimaker spare parts (and Ultimaker products in general) are not cheap (and that the Ultiboard 2 could become a bit less expensive after almost 3 years of lifetime), but please let us do fair comparisons.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Guest

[Melka 57]

Nope, you are right!

It's not a borosilicate glass and I had to sand the edges with some paper for 5 minutes.

Still, didn't see any differences in performances... and it's actually flat.

[drayson 75]

Sorry guys, I think there will be no sensefull outcome of this discussion (and a few other discussions in the forum) any more...

I just will add now my two cents to get my frustration out of my mind, and then will stop thinking about (hopefully)...

Sure, parts can be sources somewhere around the world, hacked together by somebody with 2 cents hourly rate and - of couse far below 12 years old...

Nevertheless, something called "inventive work" has also it´s right and know how is expensive - and those who don´t have it pay for it... that´s the world guys...

So I try to put simple: the guys from Ultimaker had the effort of development, putting hours of their employees into something inventive - and of course, they need to get paied for it...

and then, of course every bit and byte - and spare part - need to have a price tag PLUS some overhead cost which enables them to go forward and pay their bills and develop something new on top...

Honestly - buy cheap stuff somewhere in China or elsewhere - best something your local metal workers, farmers or textile manufactors or - better - the company you work for is producing. At least you will loose your jobs as nobody will buy something "expensive" from you and your company has to close down...

And this is the reason why the prices from UM are ok... because they have the KNOW HOW and the ABILITY and the WILL to engineer their great stuff in The Netherlands (and hopefully pay their guys very good as earn it...)...

So finally, I also think that a UM3 upgrade kit would cost a lot and need a lot of effort to implement it correctly (CE certified, safe, monkeyproof) and that´s the reason why it´s simply not feasible or sensefull - at least from a business point of view...

So, now my mind is free of frustration - thanks for reading and hopefully I ignited the plug at somebody re-thinking his opinion...

Edited October 23, 2016 by Guest