TOPIC FOR PRINTING HT FILAMENTS ( PEEK/ULTEM 1010/ULTEM 9085/PPSU/PSU) ON UM2+

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I was wondering about the Breakaway from UM. Is that the breakable support you mention?

[rajilpahuja 38]

No that wont last at all, this breakaway is printed at ultem temps so kinda different

43 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

I was wondering about the Breakaway from UM. Is that the breakable support you mention?

 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

One can dream LOL....as long as there is some sort of support available for the crazy designs.

[rajilpahuja 38]

1 hour ago, kmanstudios said:

One can dream LOL....as long as there is some sort of support available for the crazy designs.

Ya well i think once i get my kit out many things will be possible i think.

[gr5 2,172]

You could maybe use ABS as support material and melt it away later?  Except with a bed of 130C the ABS will slump and not work.  Hmm.  PLA and PVA will be even more liquid than ABS at 130C.  Maybe ABS will work anyway?  Not sure.  Ultimaker PP has a softening temp around 115C so maybe that would work - not sure.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

2 minutes ago, gr5 said:

You could maybe use ABS as support material and melt it away later?  Except with a bed of 130C the ABS will slump and not work.  Hmm.  PLA and PVA will be even more liquid than ABS at 130C.  Maybe ABS will work anyway?  Not sure.  Ultimaker PP has a softening temp around 115C so maybe that would work - not sure.

Would it stick enough to PP without dragging it around or other issues? I use yogurt tops to mix my epoxy in, which is a PP material and as soon as it is dried, you can peel it off. Not much sticks to that stuff.....

[rajilpahuja 38]

13 minutes ago, gr5 said:

You could maybe use ABS as support material and melt it away later?  Except with a bed of 130C the ABS will slump and not work.  Hmm.  PLA and PVA will be even more liquid than ABS at 130C.  Maybe ABS will work anyway?  Not sure.  Ultimaker PP has a softening temp around 115C so maybe that would work - not sure.

 

9 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

Would it stick enough to PP without dragging it around or other issues? I use yogurt tops to mix my epoxy in, which is a PP material and as soon as it is dried, you can peel it off. Not much sticks to that stuff.....

@gr5 @kmanstudios I am guessing we need a material which is more heat resistant, 3dxtech has some sorta support which is break away, but not soluble like PVA stratsys has it but that they wont sell to general people like us, but yes i am thinking HT dual now, just hope i dont blast the dam board.

[rajilpahuja 38]

Ok a second thought what about pure PC ? What say @gr5, @kmanstudios ?

[gr5 2,172]

You could try it if you have two print heads working.  Go to the lower graph on this page:

http://gr5.org/mat/

 

Look at the materials in orange - the right most ones are the potential materials - those that have a softening temp around 120C are probably ideal - so PC, PP, Nylon 645 or greentec are candidates - materials worth testing out as support for peek/ultem etc.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I am on my way out the door, but I am not sure that PC has the required TG to work that hot......

 

Never mind...Gr5 was on top of it......

Edited February 15, 2018 by kmanstudios

[gr5 2,172]

Another cool trick would be to print peek as support material except for the interface layer.  Then put a layer of PLA way up high in the print where the support meets the main material.  It would be a thin layer interface.  Then when done you could heat the whole print to 100C and the supports will just fall off.

 

I don't think cura supports this feature but people have asked for it - they want 90% of their support printed with PLA and only the interface layer printed with PVA.  This doesn't work well with PVA as PLA sticks well on top of PVA but PVA doesn't stick so well on top of PLA.  With nylon and PVA I think this would work great.  But again - not sure that cura supports this idea.

[gr5 2,172]

9 minutes ago, rajilpahuja said:

, just hope i dont blast the dam board.

The board will be fine.  It's your power supply that may trip (turn off for 1/4 second and cause your printer to reboot).  The power supply will be fine also.  It's your print that will get ruined.

[rajilpahuja 38]

9 minutes ago, gr5 said:

Another cool trick would be to print peek as support material except for the interface layer.  Then put a layer of PLA way up high in the print where the support meets the main material.  It would be a thin layer interface.  Then when done you could heat the whole print to 100C and the supports will just fall off.

 

I don't think cura supports this feature but people have asked for it - they want 90% of their support printed with PLA and only the interface layer printed with PVA.  This doesn't work well with PVA as PLA sticks well on top of PVA but PVA doesn't stick so well on top of PLA.  With nylon and PVA I think this would work great.  But again - not sure that cura supports this idea.

@gr5 I have simplify too, still have to try mark2 on that, i am just trying to finish designing that kit, its quite a bit of work, and i am thinking i might need your help on the software for this, dam lots of changes.

[geert_2 557]

On 2/15/2018 at 4:30 PM, gr5 said:

Another cool trick would be to print peek as support material except for the interface layer.  Then put a layer of PLA way up high in the print where the support meets the main material.  It would be a thin layer interface.  Then when done you could heat the whole print to 100C and the supports will just fall off.

 

I don't think cura supports this feature but people have asked for it - they want 90% of their support printed with PLA and only the interface layer printed with PVA.  This doesn't work well with PVA as PLA sticks well on top of PVA but PVA doesn't stick so well on top of PLA.  With nylon and PVA I think this would work great.  But again - not sure that cura supports this idea.

Maybe you could simulate this by designing such custom supports in your CAD model? And switch off all supports in Cura? Then you can give any shape you want to the supports in the main material, and to the thin interface-layer in the second material?

[rajilpahuja 38]

On 2/19/2018 at 9:27 PM, geert_2 said:

Maybe you could simulate this by designing such custom supports in your CAD model? And switch off all supports in Cura? Then you can give any shape you want to the supports in the main material, and to the thin interface-layer in the second material?

I dont think PLA will handle peek coming on top of it at 400C and to print peek i need 160 on the bed, plus air temps 65C so its kinda not possible using it technically.

[Everready 4]

gr5 & rajilpahuja thank you for all of your contributions towards 3D printing and creating a better tool

 

I am highly interested in starting a high temp/high strength Ultimaker build. Would you also be able to reverse the motors on the UM2? Currently I have a Wanhao Duplicator 4x and have been using it for 5 years( with slight improvements through soldering mosfets and changing G-code) and am looking for an Ultimaker to buy. I have used and modified the UM2 I use at work for my company but I want one for myself. Both the UMO+ and a used UM2 are within reach to start my project. Would either of you or anyone with experience have any recommendations for which one i should start with?

 

Thank you again 

[rajilpahuja 38]

1 hour ago, Everready said:

gr5 & rajilpahuja thank you for all of your contributions towards 3D printing and creating a better tool

 

I am highly interested in starting a high temp/high strength Ultimaker build. Would you also be able to reverse the motors on the UM2? Currently I have a Wanhao Duplicator 4x and have been using it for 5 years( with slight improvements through soldering mosfets and changing G-code) and am looking for an Ultimaker to buy. I have used and modified the UM2 I use at work for my company but I want one for myself. Both the UMO+ and a used UM2 are within reach to start my project. Would either of you or anyone with experience have any recommendations for which one i should start with?

 

Thank you again 

I think the best person to guide will be @gr5 he has plenty of expeirence with code and electronics to me best option would be a UMO as you can mount the motors outside and motors can be reversed ETC there are lot of options however i would advise you to wait for @gr5 s reply ?

[gr5 2,172]

Used printers are fine.  You will be replacing many parts anyway.  I'd probably go with the UM2 - I like the way it does leveling much better.  The quality of prints is very similar -- the UM2 with it's extra fan has a little better quality but that's not relevant to you anyway.  I think you'll get better firmware support if you go with the UM2.

 

As far as reversing steppers.  There are two ways to do it and both ways are easy.  If you are building the firmware it's trivial to reverse motors.  If you prefer working with your hands then you can swap two wires on the stepper connector to reverse the wires.  If you prefer the software method I can send you a link.  If you prefer the hardware method note that each stepper has two twisted pairs.  Simply swap the two wires of one of the twisted pairs.  To get the pin out of the connecter use a magnifying glass and you will see a little piece of metal that keeps the pin from sliding out.  Hold that down with a small tool such as a jewelers screwdriver and push the pin out.  Remember where it was.  Swap any two twisted ones.  If you swap both pairs it will be back to "normal" again.  If you mess this up you will not damage the steppers nor the stepper drivers. 

[gr5 2,172]

2 minutes ago, rajilpahuja said:

would be a UMO as you can mount the motors outside

This is true.  But there are more surfaces of the UMO to cover up (UMO has open sides).  You can mount UM2 motors outside but you need to drill a large (about 30mm) hole for the stepper gear to fit through for both X and Y.  Mounting an extruder outside the UM2 is pretty easy as well.  Of course this is already done on the UMO.

 

If you are comfortable with building the UMO firmware then a UMO is fine.  If you don't want to build the firmware yourself then you will need to go with UM2 firmware as there is much more help there.  People will build firmware for you or more likely use the same version of firmware that rajil has.

 

Also the UM2 firmware has more features such as "continue failed print" and ability to adjust steps/mm without rebuilding the firmware and several more handy things that aren't critical.

 

 

[Everready 4]

15 minutes ago, gr5 said:

This is true.  But there are more surfaces of the UMO to cover up (UMO has open sides).  You can mount UM2 motors outside but you need to drill a large (about 30mm) hole for the stepper gear to fit through for both X and Y.  Mounting an extruder outside the UM2 is pretty easy as well.  Of course this is already done on the UMO.

 

If you are comfortable with building the UMO firmware then a UMO is fine.  If you don't want to build the firmware yourself then you will need to go with UM2 firmware as there is much more help there.  People will build firmware for you or more likely use the same version of firmware that rajil has.

 

Also the UM2 firmware has more features such as "continue failed print" and ability to adjust steps/mm without rebuilding the firmware and several more handy things that aren't critical.

 

 

Now I'm leaning toward the UM2 for this build.

 

I would like to mount the steppers on the outside of the frame for proper cooling and longevity of the motors. I reffered to this as "reversing the steppers". Sorry for the vague phrasing.

Cutting holes and mounting the motors on the outside of the UM2 seems fairly easy in principle but have only seen the UMO & UMO+ with this modification in my limited research.

 

I have not customized or built firmware before but i imagine it will be very similar to @rajilpahuja since I would like to use E3D V6 hotend 1.75mm, bondtech BMG, and AC Silicone Bed heater. One of the differences I see between @rajilpahuja would be mounting the stepper motors on the outside which can be done at anytime and is not crucial to printing as seen by all of the work he has done.

 

 

 

 

[nilrog 103]

19 hours ago, gr5 said:

If you are comfortable with building the UMO firmware then a UMO is fine.  If you don't want to build the firmware yourself then you will need to go with UM2 firmware as there is much more help there.  People will build firmware for you or more likely use the same version of firmware that rajil has.

 

Also the UM2 firmware has more features such as "continue failed print" and ability to adjust steps/mm without rebuilding the firmware and several more handy things that aren't critical.

 

 

Building custom firmware for UMO(+) is dead simple...use @amedee's online builder...it covers most cases.

It also contains a lot more features than the stock firmware.

https://bultimaker.bulles.eu/

 

[gr5 2,172]

Wow - that builder got better recently.  And it has the crucial features needed for a high temp printer including swapping direction of steppers, setting max temp of nozzle to 400C.  However it seems not to allow you to set bed max temp which needs to go to 160C and the default max temp for some marlins (not sure about this version of marlin) is 150C.

[gr5 2,172]

23 hours ago, Everready said:

mounting the stepper motors on the outside which can be done at anytime and is not crucial to printing as seen by all of the work he has done.

He added heat sinks and fans to his steppers.  He has reached 80C air temp.  Don't let it get hotter than that without moving steppers outside.

 

I believe you can use the existing 4 holes for the X,Y stepper mounting screws and drill a large hole for the pulley and I think it will reach far enough in through the wall of the printer to work without buying any parts.  But I'm not 100% sure.  If the shaft on the stepper is 1mm too short you would have to buy a whole new stepper.

[gr5 2,172]

6 minutes ago, gr5 said:

Wow - that builder got better recently.  And it has the crucial features needed for a high temp printer including swapping direction of steppers, setting max temp of nozzle to 400C.  However it seems not to allow you to set bed max temp which needs to go to 160C and the default max temp for some marlins (not sure about this version of marlin) is 150C.

 

Actually I think it's worse than it sounds - I think this is absolute abort/crash limit and the dial that controls the bed temp only lets you go something like 15C cooler than that.  However I bet @amedee would add this feature to his builder if you ask nicely.

[amedee 349]

Yeah, it is 15°C lower than max, so 135°C max for the build plate.
Should not be too much of a problem to add that to the builder...