Ultimaker S5 - one material appears to be empty

[Stefania Dinea 101]

@Spentys welcome! 5 new printers?? I am jealous - I hope you will exploit them to the max. As @SandervG said - what we did is described above - we updated the firmware. 

[Jdn 0]

I have a New S5 on 5.1.8 20181207  printing ABS in Extruder 1 that gets the same error now.  I just shut off flow control.  I have PVA in extruder 2. but it is not selected for support. 

 

Is this the latest firmware?  

[PseudoRandomChelsea 0]

I had the same issue again - with latest firmware.

 

My print kept pausing saying I was out of filament (I wasn't) and eventually (because it kept working) I turned off the flow sensor... Many hours later I ended up with this - guess it did stop flowing at some point, but I wish that sensor was more reliable 😞

[Spentys 1]

Hi @SandervG

 

Thank you for the answer! 

 

I believe we are running on the latest version of your firmware: 5.1.8.20181207 (that's what Cura is telling us). 

 

What we did yesterday: 

- We unloaded and reloaded the filaments and for the moment everything works. 

- And on one of the S5 we disabled the flow sensor. 

 

But since we've haven't really modified something, I suspect that the problem will come back. 

 

Anyway, I will keep you up-to-date if there are any changes 🙂 

[Spentys 1]

Hi @Stefania Dinea, 

 

Thanks for your update and answer 

As said before I think we are running on the latest version of the firmware: 5.1.8.20181207 (at least that's what Cura is telling us 🙂 ) 

[Jdn 0]

I have been ok when i shut flow control off. I fear the day i have a big blob because i did this, but so far it has ran all night. when i was only getting 30 minutes with flow control on. 

 

[Jdn 0]

You might be on to something with the Network issues and the filament issue. My printer has ran all night, only after Cura on my machine crashed.  I was connected via network to it.  I went back now to connect as the print is almost done and i can't connect, when i look at the machine it says the network is disconnected.  So network is not hooked up and it ran all night fine... 

[PaulK 14]

I had this happen today. There was no filament out, though it could have been slipping or something; i'm not sure if the sensor is optical or a mechanical wheel. It happened 3 times on a print. I was printing PLA+PVA. The PVA is reasonably dry and seems to print OK.

 

Cura Connect on the  printer is not happy; I can no longer reliably connect to it, and when I can, it logs a lot of errors about not being able to get maintenance history and not being able to get status, though mostly I can't view the logs or the printer (this is all through the web page at the printer address).

 

I can't verify if network is associated with, not enough data, but will say I'm getting at the same time as cura connect misbehaving.

 

[Framar 38]

Hi Spentys, 

 

You see, with my S5 it is the opposite; when the printer runs out of filament it continues printing in the air even though the flow sensor is enabled...

[Spentys 1]

Hi @Jdn

 

Thanks for your message. 

We haven't been dealing with network issue ftm. 

Thanks, we will check filament parameters. 

 

Hi @PaulK

have you tried to put the flow sensor off? 🙂

 

 

Hi @Framar, 

no clue how you could deal with that... 

Are you on the last firmware?  

 

[Shadowman 53]

Any update to this issue?

 

It has remained a pervasive issue with us, removing the filament and cutting a section off and reinserting it, aborting and restarting the print, reloaded the latest FW, cycled the machine, tried a new roll of filament, dried the filament per Ultimaker’s directions, etc. and the issue remains.

 

It has become an impossible situation.

 

BTW; always with PVA (maybe with the transparent too) so I lean towards a sensor calibration issue.

 

Thank you 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Ever just tried to turn off the filament sensor?

 

Setting (Gear symbol)------->Settings------->Scroll down to the flow sensor.....actually, it is secong on the setting area. But, I am not on the S5 Beta.

 

Also, PVA can just be a pain about setting this off because as soon as humidity makes it, by the least amount, pliable, it will give false errors.

[Shadowman 53]

3 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

Ever just tried to turn off the filament sensor?

 

Setting (Gear symbol)------->Settings------->Scroll down to the flow sensor.....actually, it is secong on the setting area. But, I am not on the S5 Beta.

 

Also, PVA can just be a pain about setting this off because as soon as humidity makes it, by the least amount, pliable, it will give false errors.

Thank you and no.

 

The filament sensor has saved me on several long prints during which the filament gets bound on the roll; without it the time loss would have been a disaster. 

 

The filament sensor along with (dare I say) the aluminum build plate were the 2 significant reasons why the Ultimaker S5 was purchased.

 

The current print is 18 plus hours and I have had to restart it no less than 4 times in the past 6 hours so I will test your theory.

 

I just aborted the print, cleaned the build plate, disabled the filament sensor, and will now see how it does.

 

BTW; I am not using the beta version.

 

Your input is appreciated and I will refrain from sharing my thoughts until the print has completed.

 

Thank you again.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Shadowman
Spelling

[aag 6]

I had the same problems at the beginning. I then started to dry the PVA tremendously. I always keep it in a heated dry box, it hardly has a molecule of H2O left inside. Lo and behold, all the issues are gone! You really need to seriously dry your PVA, it will work miracles. Since you say that the problems are always with the PVA, it seems clear that the issue is not the mechanics of the printer, but rather the filament. Dry your PVA, I tell you, you will be surprised. But you need to dry it actively and continuously with heat and forced ventilation, anything else will not be enough.

[Shadowman 53]

13 minutes ago, aag said:

I had the same problems at the beginning. I then started to dry the PVA tremendously. I always keep it in a heated dry box, it hardly has a molecule of H2O left inside. Lo and behold, all the issues are gone! You really need to seriously dry your PVA, it will work miracles. Since you say that the problems are always with the PVA, it seems clear that the issue is not the mechanics of the printer, but rather the filament. Dry your PVA, I tell you, you will be surprised. But you need to dry it actively and continuously with heat and forced ventilation, anything else will not be enough.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

I will step up that which I have been doing.

 

To date I keep the filament in an air tight dry box.

 

After a print I place the PVA in the original cardboard box and set it in the Ultimaker S5 on the build plate at 50c for a couple hours before bagging it with desiccant within the dry box.

 

The printer operates in a controlled 65-70 degree F environment with relative humidity between 30-40% so as I understand; this is well below the PVA issue threshold.

 

Giving up the sensor long term is not an option.

 

I have read comments from others with the same issue and I understand that sensor calibration tweaks were made in the latest beta version; once it is released as stable I will try it and hopefully in concert with my actions good results will follow.

 

Takes care.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Shadowman
Spelling

[aag 6]

I cautiously suggest that you could do more to dry the PVA. It may be already bad when it comes from the shop, and a dry box will not correct that. I suggest a simple test. Try to bend the PVA. It should have the Young modulus of a uncooked (raw) Barilla spaghetti: it should be rigid, and break without even bending. If it bends before breaking, or it does not even break, it's not sufficiently dry.

For details: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.07069.pdf 🙂

Edited March 13, 2019 by aag

[Shadowman 53]

57 minutes ago, aag said:

I cautiously suggest that you could do more to dry the PVA. It may be already bad when it comes from the shop, and a dry box will not correct that. I suggest a simple test. Try to bend the PVA. It should have the Young modulus of a uncooked (raw) Barilla spaghetti: it should be rigid, and break without even bending. If it bends before breaking, or it does not even break, it's not sufficiently dry.

For details: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.07069.pdf 🙂

Thank you; no caution is necessary as I like using PVA; in fact without it many prints could not be considered and yet I am a bit frustrated so all assistance is appreciated.

 

Based on what you shared; the PVA that I use; both new and after being dried on the build plate is never truly dry.

 

I have read many comments about PVA only wishing that I truly understood its characteristics. Some say it’s brittle when wet, others just the opposite.

 

When I have had the PVA brittle to the point that a slight bend will cause it to snap then I have experienced it breaking in the Bowden tube when loading and I am unable to straighten it to insert it into the feeder.

 

So using your comments as shared and my shared experiences how do you successful load and use PVA if it will break with only slight bending?

 

Takes care

Edited March 13, 2019 by Shadowman
Spelling

[Shadowman 53]

Well it’s with mixed feelings that I make this post.

 

A 18 plus hour print just completed with no issues however, it was only able to be completed with the filament sensor turned off.

 

IMO this makes perfectly clear that the calibration and or operational characteristics of the sensor to do work well with PVA. It remains my hope that the FW presently in beta has aggressively tackled this issue as it has plagued us since day one as well as many others.

 

If not for the suggestion from “kmanstudios” to turn the sensor off I would still be hitting the resume button ..... over and over again throughout the printing process with there never being a valid issue with the PVA; phenomenal.

 

As I said at the onset of this reply; mixed feelings because on one hand having the print completed without any intervention was wonderful and yet knowing that the sensor does not provide the solicited protection is troubling.

 

Takes care.

[PFolland 0]

Having the same issue, filament appears to be empty after an hour or so of printing. I have latest firmware on both cura (4.0) and S5. For context of have had this S5 for a couple months and has worked fine, only after the 4.0 update had this issue occurred? So from my view it’s cura  software issue???

 

From reading the threads the solution (although I don’t think that’s accurate) is to turn off the flow sensor. However with the flow sensor turned off, my architectural model prints have lots of threading from oozing filament which disturb the clean level/strata of the model. So as you can see I can not turn the sensor off if I want to retain the clean model I am after? But on the other hand I do 3-11 day prints so at the moment I cannot use my printer!? 

 

Your help would be greatly appreciated

 

Thanks 

 

P

 

[aag 6]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:06 AM, Shadowman said:

I have read many comments about PVA only wishing that I truly understood its characteristics. Some say it’s brittle when wet, others just the opposite.

 

When I have had the PVA brittle to the point that a slight bend will cause it to snap then I have experienced it breaking in the Bowden tube when loading and I am unable to straighten it to insert it into the feeder.

 

So using your comments as shared and my shared experiences how do you successful load and use PVA if it will break with only slight bending?

 

Takes care

 

I know! It's difficult to insert ultra-dry PVA into the tube, and I also occasionally experienced PVA breakage within the Bowden. Still, ever since I maximally dry the PVA, I never again had any flow-sensor issues. Ultra-dry PVA is a pain, but I think that it's the price to pay for peace-of-mind during long prints.

[PKlemm 0]

I also got that message on my S5 with the newest firmware but NOT with PVA. The job only worked with extruder 1 and PLA over about 12 houres and then stopped with the missing material message. But the PLA material was not consumed and the coil was not uptight. Also the print core was not dirty. I still stopped the job (...lost a lot of material) and restarted it again at the next day. With the active setted flow sensor the error message appeared again after about 1 hour runtime. I could not see any mechanical problem again and hit "continue". The printer restarts working with no upcomming message and worked fine now since about 4 houres... hopefully up to the end.
I would like to know more about what kind of flow sensor it is, how it works, and where it is installed? Could please anyone explain that?
It is frustated for me to get issue messages without having a chance to understand what happened.

Edited May 17, 2019 by PKlemm
new assumption: Sensor is an incremental encoder mounted before filament transport pully.

[aag 6]

the sensor wire seems to be connected with a kind of ceramic plate on the back of the printhead. I am guessing that its impedance or capacitance changes when the filament touches the plate, and that this is what's being measured.
BTW I find it annoying that it doesn't say which of the two extruders has stopped flowing. It wouldn't even need a hardware change: it could be implemented in firmware/software by simply annotating the printhead in use when  the problem occurs.

[Shadowman 53]

5 hours ago, PKlemm said:

I also got that message on my S5 with the newest firmware but NOT with PVA. The job only worked with extruder 1 and PLA over about 12 houres and then stopped with the missing material message. But the PLA material was not consumed and the coil was not uptight. Also the print core was not dirty. I still stopped the job (...lost a lot of material) and restarted it again at the next day. With the active setted flow sensor the error message appeared again after about 1 hour runtime. I could not see any mechanical problem again and hit "continue". The printer restarts working with no upcomming message and worked fine now since about 4 houres... hopefully up to the end.
I would like to know more about what kind of flow sensor it is, how it works, and where it is installed? Could please anyone explain that?
It is frustated for me to get issue messages without having a chance to understand what happened.

The filament sensor is one of several disappointments.

 

I have not been able to use the filament sensor with consistent behavior since prior to March 16th.

 

As shared by others; it is not solely a PVA issue even though is seems as though PVA is more prone to having the sensor not present the proper information. Add to this; not knowing which sensor is acting up makes absolutely no sense particularly when there is no obvious issue as such it is a crap shoot at best.

 

6 weeks ago at the suggestion of Ultimaker, I disabled the filament sensor with the promise that a fix was coming soon; to date there is no fix; only additional issues.

 

Because of this I have not been able to complete large multi day prints because the risk is simply to high.

 

The Ultimaker Team that I bought into and believed in appears to have gone MIA.

 

Takes care 

[PKlemm 0]

Thank you aag and Shadowman for your response.
@aag: Do you mean that IC on the picture? I guess that is only a identification cirquit of the print head.

Isn't there any official description/spec about that sensor or is it a secret of Ultimaker?

 

//

[PFolland 0]

Ok an update on my situation.

 

It turns out the feeder for the PVA filament was shedding some material as it passed through feeder mechanism. This in turn somehow clogged/blocked the flow sensor from detecting the material.

 

I simply opened up feeder 2 and cleaned it out.

 

All works fine now, been printing for 3 days non stop.