Aluminum build plate update

[MarcM 0]

@SandervG  After I set up my new S5 last year, I test-printed in different materials -- e.g., ABS, CPE+, and PC.  For the work I do, (prototype molds for thermoforming) I would really prefer to use PC for its higher temperature durability.  The S5 was ordered with the optional cover to retain as much heat in the build chamber as possible.  Nonetheless, the results of the printed part were poor with PC, as the material sagged and slumped as it built up, resulting in a misshapen mold.  I was anticipating the arrival of the aluminum build plate for its thermal properties as a better platform on which to build a PC part.  This is why, for me, a second glass plate is unhelpful.  Up-time with part changeovers has not been a challenge.  I cannot successfully print PC molds on a glass plate, and now the promise of the aluminum plate has vaporized.  Quite disappointing.

[ben1272 0]

MarcM, I am in a similar situation.  We also bought the additional acrylic cover in order to retain heat for difficult-to-print materials, fully expecting to be able to use it (and the new improved aluminum build plate) to print 'challnging-to -print' materials like PC.  Without the improved build plate, we would have been MUCH better off purchasing a less expensive (but no less capable)  printer.

 

I think it is the obstinate position taken by Ultimaker that this decision to cancel the aluminum build plate is no big deal.  That decision is truly in the eye and mind of the ($6k USD poorer) purchaser who may not be able to do with the machine what they were led to believe they would be able to do with it.  I have not yet engaged Ultimaker, so I cant yet say how my specific case will be handled, but I will be sure to report back once I know.

 

I have been thinking about how best to proceed with Ultimaker, and will be in contact with them shortly.  I hope they are willing to do what is necessary to make this right.

[Brulti 177]

@MarcM I just wanted to say that I did manage to make a print with PC, albeit a small one, on a UM3E with a glass plate and some glue to make it stick. I also bought the optional cover to insure stable temperature, mostly because I tend to do a lot of prints in ABS for my customers. And UM sold PC material way before the S5 and aluminum build plate was even a prototype.

 

Thus, it may be possible that your printing problems do not lie on the absence of an aluminum build-plate, which was only supposed to make printing with certain materials easier, but perhaps there is also a problems with the settings you use, or maybe the roll of PC you bought is faulty. I did have a bad roll of PVA once, it seemed as if it took quite a lot of humidity even before I took it out of the sealed package, but I managed to save it with an oven. Perhaps you could ask your reseller for a swap with a new roll and test again?

[gr5 2,167]

@ben1272 - If you could try printing PC again we can probably help you out.  A photo of your "slumped" print would be good.  Are you sure the fan was on for that print?  Putting the cover on the top of the printer is a great start.  That will get the air temp up to around 35C if the bed is at 110C (the hotter the better for air and bed but you don't want the air hotter than 60C because it's bad for the steppers.  Unlikely you can get that kind of air temp without more heaters.

 

The problem with PC is not that it tends to slump - it's the opposite - it solidifies so quickly (around 150C) that it tends not to get a good layer bond so the parts are weak and break along layer lines.  The other problem is getting it to stick to the bed - parts can warp.  But you didn't mention that as a problem.  UM recommends adhesion sheets for PC.  There are alternate tricks to get it to stick if you don't have adhesion sheets.

 

Please show a photo of this "sagging" and "slumping".  If it's what I think you mean then you need more fan.  You probably want the absolute minimum fan where it just barely spins.  But not spinning at all is a problem.

 

[MarcM 0]

@Brulti , @gr5 - Thank you for your replies.  Perhaps the S5 was not the right machine for me to have purchased.  While I appreciate all the 100+ settings that are available in Cura which can control things like fan speed and build plate temp and nozzle temp and print speeds, etc., what I really need is a plug-and-play tool.  I suppose the Cura/Ultimaker combo is appropriate for those who have a good understanding of the dynamics of 3D printing and have the time to work through complications and find a solution - - or, as @gr5 has offered, relying on others' expertise and experience to walk through a solution.  But this S5 was intended to get up-and-running on some prototypes which work the first time, not to be a 3D printing experiment and education tool to learn the intricacies involved.  The glossy marketing materials state that the S5 can print PC--and indeed it can.  What it doesn't say is that it won't successfully print PC with the default settings in Cura.  If PC needs a particular fan speed and/or plate temperature to build successfully, my thought is that's something Team Ultimaker should incorporate into a release of Cura, not something simply to be left to the Ultimaker Community to figure out.  Honestly, I didn't know what I was getting into.  Perhaps the aluminum plate would not have made a difference with PC, but my reseller seemed convinced it would.  We'll never know.  I'm not wanting to rant or whine too much here, sorry if I already have.  I threw away the sagging PC parts that were made months ago, so I have nothing to take photos of.  If time and my patience permit, I'll print another PC part, and take you up on your offer for assistance.  FWIW, it thankfully seems to print ABS just fine.

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @MarcM and @ben1272, thank you for your message. We were also not happy with the decision to abort the development of this aluminum build plate, and the test results that lead to this decision. 

While reading through your posts I also noticed what user gr5 mentioned, bed adhesion did not seem to be mentioned in your post as a problem. This is the only element an aluminum bed would have had an effect on. 

 

@MarcM, you shouldn't need to rely on those 300+ settings in Ultimaker Cura to get reliable prints. In Cura you should be able to select the material that you use and it should load all appropriate settings specifically for this material. These settings are usually always good, but never perfect. Because it is like a one size fits all approach. That's why the other settings are available, when you have gained some experience and insights, and possibly with the help of our community of 3D printing experts here, you could find the exact settings that work for you. 

 

If either of you need any help getting a certain material to stick to your build plate, please let me know. Some materials need an additional adhesive (like a glue stick, or adhesion sheets), and we can help you find the right adhesive for you. You may find that an additional glass plate with an adhesion sheet may work for you after all. If that may not be the case, and an additional glass plate is not really something useful for you, please let me know via DM and we can look into a reasonable and satisfying alternative. 

[UMS5_VSM 0]

On 4/15/2019 at 4:00 AM, SandervG said:

Hi Carla, your best bet would be our sales partner in your region has more information. Since you are from GB that would be 3DGBIRE.

(A sales partner is our partner in a certain region that we work together with very closely. They sell our products, but also appoint all resellers and should ensure a good customer service regionally. So it may not not be necessarily your reseller, but it could be.

 

I'll share our other sales partners here below as a reference:

GB - 3DGBIRE

DE, AT, CH - iGo3D

Nordic + Baltics - 3DVerkstan

FR - Makershop

NL, BE, LU - Trideus

 

 

@SandervG Do you have any info on who the partners are for the US?  I haven't heard anything on our side yet about when the plate should arrive.

 

Thanks,

[SandervG 1,521]

On 5/2/2019 at 7:14 PM, UMS5_VSM said:

@SandervG Do you have any info on who the partners are for the US?  I haven't heard anything on our side yet about when the plate should arrive.

 

Thanks,

 

Hi, I'll send you a DM with my colleague's email address that should be able to help you! 

[BlackSmurf 0]

Hi,

got my glass plate today from iGo3D (Germany)

 

Thanks

[Ishy 8]

Hi, Interesting read after recently buying an S5 that I'm extremely pleased with. I have filled out the form to get another glass bed that will prove extremely useful to me. However, back to the alluminium issue. I've been manufacturing billet alluminium parts for well over 20 years and would be interested in some details of exactly what the issue is. Is it Dimensional tolerances or heat related maybe?

[gr5 2,167]

I'm not sure but I think there were issues of inconsistent flatness and possibly the aluminum warps over time after heating to 100C and cooling again repeatedly.  Or maybe only the *second* issue (the temperature warping) was the issue.  Note that it's pretty thin - probably the same thickness as the glass which you could measure yourself but I think might be 4mm?  Making aluminum that thin and also having it not warp when repeatedly heated to 100C is evidently a problem.

[Ishy 8]

15 hours ago, gr5 said:

I'm not sure but I think there were issues of inconsistent flatness and possibly the aluminum warps over time after heating to 100C and cooling again repeatedly.  Or maybe only the *second* issue (the temperature warping) was the issue.  Note that it's pretty thin - probably the same thickness as the glass which you could measure yourself but I think might be 4mm?  Making aluminum that thin and also having it not warp when repeatedly heated to 100C is evidently a problem.

Interesting thank's. It is possible to get both dimensionally and thermally stable alluminium that would easily meet the requirements. Downside is the minimum thickness is 5mm and the glass plate is under 4mm.

[gr5 2,167]

The other reason that we want it thin is because the more mass is in the plate, the longer it takes to heat up and more importantly cool down.  People don't want to wait 20 minutes for a massive aluminum plate to cool back to room temperature so they can get their part off without smushing it.  But mostly one would want it to be easy to swap glass and aluminum and having them both fit the same clips would be nice.

 

I suppose the aluminum could have slots cut out for the clips and be much thicker than the glass?  Are you listening Ultimaker?  That would be patentable!

[Link 34]

Hi,

 

I recently purchased my S5, it came with a single glass plate, obviously no Aluminium plate, I completed the form to request the second glass plate a couple of weeks ago and heard nothing. I obviously spoke with the retailer in the UK and they just sent me the link to request the additional glass plate....

 

I haven't received a confirmation email stating the plate is on the way or anything to indicate what is happening, the page where you request the plate simply closes when you complete it with no confirmation it even went through. could someone update me on what is going on please ? @SandervG

[Ishy 8]

Same here, no second plate and I put the form in around three weeks ago.

[UMS5_VSM 0]

13 hours ago, Ishy said:

Same here, no second plate and I put the form in around three weeks ago.

 

3 weeks?  Sorry to say I have been waiting around 8-9 months since I filled out my form after my S5 arrived.

[Link 34]

6 hours ago, UMS5_VSM said:

 

3 weeks?  Sorry to say I have been waiting around 8-9 months since I filled out my form after my S5 arrived.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!, errr that isnt good, i am a big supporter of UM as i think their products are great, but that isn't good. We were meant to get a Ally plate, that got canned, then all new printers were meant to come with two glass plates, mine is only 2 weeks old and came with one, and now no sign of the second glass plate ?. without stating the obvious this is not a cheap printer........ !

[Brulti 177]

@Link What @UMS5_VSM forget to say is that 8-9 months is just after the UM5 started being sold an UM still expected to be able to ship out aluminum plate. They haven't been waiting 8-9 months for the second glass plate.

 

If you look at the messages above in this thread, you'll see that the second glass plates have begun shipping late April-early May to the various retailers worldwide, who are then in charge of sending them to the customers. Thus why it can be slow to arrive, especially if you take into account the fact they probably sent them first to the people who first bought the UM5.

[Link 34]

23 minutes ago, Brulti said:

@Link What @UMS5_VSM forget to say is that 8-9 months is just after the UM5 started being sold an UM still expected to be able to ship out aluminum plate. They haven't been waiting 8-9 months for the second glass plate.

 

If you look at the messages above in this thread, you'll see that the second glass plates have begun shipping late April-early May to the various retailers worldwide, who are then in charge of sending them to the customers. Thus why it can be slow to arrive, especially if you take into account the fact they probably sent them first to the people who first bought the UM5.

 

Ok, thanks for clarifying, appreciated

[mkaj2019 41]

I received my second glas plate a few weeks ago. I just asked the local UM certified dealer iGo3D here in Germany even though I purchased the printer from a different dealer (Conrad). I gave them my instrument number again and they shipped it to me.

[Link 34]

i still haven't received the second glass plate, despite being told it was meant to be in the box with the printer. The UK reseller just says they are on back order with UM. Not great

[Belezeebub 9]

First off, I don’t have a S5 Yet. There is a 50% chance I will in the next 5 to 7 says if not the s5 it will be a Taz Pro, if I had purchased one and I was promised an Aluminum built plate and was told after the fact I wouldn’t getting one I would be majorly upset.

Which is exactly what happed with my Prusa I3 Mk3 I was supposed to get Power coated PEI, the reviewers got power coated PEI, the reviews raved about the power coated PEI sheet, I never got mine and it left a bad taste in my mouth but seeing I returned that piece of junk mk3 I got over it.

Personally, I would think a flexible build sheet would be a lot more helpful for me, personally I am looking at the BuildTak FLexPlate for my next printer. Its 155 for the S5 maybe Um can make a deal with BuildTak for a free one or a good discount if you don’t want the second glass plate?

Edited August 3, 2019 by Belezeebub

[Smithy 1,144]

I guess the BuildTak will not work with the S5 because the active leveling which is done with a hot nozzle. So the nozzle will melt your BuildTak during the measurement. And you cannot disable the active leveling on the S5.

 

Personally I don't understand why so many people are not happy with the glass plate. I love it and have no issues to get the needed adhesion and also have no troubles to get my object off after printing. And with a second glass plate it is more easier because when the print is finished you change the plates and you can start the next print.

[Link 34]

I agree, glass is by far the best surface, I spray a bit of 3dlac on and never ever have a single issue. Sticks every single time and simply pops off when cold. I would never buy a printer that bad a fixed pei plate like the Prusa for example (sold it for that very reason, totally hit and miss for adhesion). I can't comment about using a second glass plate as it still hasn't arrived !!!!, Not good 😔

[Smithy 1,144]

1 hour ago, Link said:

it still hasn't arrived

 

I feel with you, I also waited a long time and thought they forgot mine. But someday it arrived.

Contact your reseller from time to time, so they don't forget 🙂