Simplify3D

[neotko 1,417]

I never used it. You need to adjust the process. Go to 'Layer' and check your 'First layer height' and 'First layer width'.

If you print at 0.2 and you use first layer height at 150%, it will print a first layer of 0.3

If you print at 0.2 and you use first layer WIDTH at 150% it will extrude as much as needed for 0.3 layer.

You need to play with both elements if you need to adjust the grip on the bed.

But first thinks first. you need to have a normal leveled bed. Then you play with this. I never used the s3d calibration (nor plan to).

[bob-hepple 59]

Neotko

MMM I think there are other things at play I re levelled the bed again and again. will post a picture tomorrow, had this trouble for a while now but has got a lot worse with the bondtech, I presume because the old extruder wasn't pushing as much Just motor clicking back...

I am using a nozzle from 3DSolex they call them Jet Nozzles not the same profile as being sold by Ultimaker could this be a problem.

Thanks for the Reply

[neotko 1,417]

If you had problems to extrude, and now you have problems to extrude, let's check the basics.

Check Bowden deformation. Take it out and look at it. It's the tip deformed = cut a few mm. It's in really bad shape = get a new bowden.

Check PTFE coupler deformation (spin it on filament and you will be able to see if it's straight or if it's bend due spring pressure or too tight assembly)

Change the spring by a fixed part https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ultimaker-2-spring-replacement.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Let's wait for the photo.... can't imagine an issue with the jet nozzle... already use them for a long time no issue....

Please also share your settings used with the photo.

[bob-hepple 59]

Ok Got some pics of past and present first layers

this is what I have been getting

BED FRESHLY LEVELLED

this print I started last night the first rim lines if you look close you can see it is starting to get thick

this is first layer going down, I stopped the print so could get a better pic

settings for this print

3Dsolex Nozzle 0.40

temp

210 layer1

205 layer2

200 layer3 fans ramping up from 40% to 80% on every subsequent layer

Layer ht 0.20

print speed 1800 mm/min

first layer setting

ht 100%

Width 100%

speed 80%

Extrusion Multiplier 0.90 I was at 1.10 with old extruder and I am thinking of going to 0.85 next

My first layer is the problem this is finished print front

the back note the deformity where it was think

I recently installed Bondtech and so doing the bowden tube is new and the connectors

I also re built the head 3 weeks ago with new Ptfe and turned my own spacer up

I turned the Coupler to give a 1mm exact space before the OB. I do not know the principles of the spacer, i.e. I am under the impression if you turn the coupler it exerts pressure on the Ptfe how does this happen if I turn it the OB block lowers>>>>?????

hope this shines some light on a problem that is giving me Grief

[chrisw 70]

Ok Got some pics of past and present first layers

 

After you freshly leveled the bed, I think you're getting a blobbed effect on layer1 from a couple things:

First, if the layer height is .2 and you have the bed set closer than .2 to the nozzle while it's printing a solid first layer, then there's too much material getting extruded and it must go somewhere, so it squeezes out and piles up. Maybe turn each bed adjuster 1/4 turn tighter and see if that helps.

Second, if this material prints great at 200C for layers 3 and up, then I'd try that same temp for layer 1. Lower print speed + higher temp may be part of the issue.

 

if you turn the coupler it exerts pressure on the Ptfe how does this happen if I turn it the OB block lowers>>>>?????

 

Hah. Yes that got me when I first started working with my OB. Think about the fact that when you turn the coupler so that it screws in tighter towards the block, there's a flat edge (part of the block) inside the coupler. The PTFE coupler sits on that flat edge. So when you tighten the coupler it pulls that flat edge up against the PTFE coupler. That pressure forces the block down and the PTFE up

[tinkergnome 927]

I also re built the head 3 weeks ago with new Ptfe and turned my own spacer up

 

I wonder, if this gap has something to do with your issues.

At least i know that this should not be there...

[ultiarjan 1,223]

should indeed not be there, if the hot-end-isolator will drop the half mm (or what is it) you will loos all pressure of the PTFE.... and get leaks... you probably don't have any pressure right now...

[bob-hepple 59]

Ok I appreciate the replies

If I'm not mistaken AND I Could be there is a flange on the coupler that prevents it going all the way down so to make it go flush I would have to drill the alloy plate out I will check my old pics and see. Befor I strip the head, and will report back?

[bob-hepple 59]

Chrisw

Tha you for your explanation of how the pressure works I will take a close look at the way I have put the head together when and if I strip it to look at the coupler. I am purity sure it has a flange on it. But I will check?

[bob-hepple 59]

Yes I am correct if you look at this picture you can see all be it quiet hard the is a flange on the coupler

[bob-hepple 59]

This pic was taken when I had the i2k in there which is 1.7mm thick hence the height of Ptfe

In my last rebuild I ditched the i2k and made the alloy spacer.

[bob-hepple 59]

Hears a better picture from the Manufacturers Distributors web sight, this shows the flange

just tried reducing the layer height and reducing the percentage down to 75% first layer, mega thick then fine from there on. I notice 3D Solex distributor does not sell the Nozzle I am using, I might just swop the nozzle for the other style and try that... But don't want to re level the bed again this month??? on saying that the print is fine bar from layer1

[chrisw 70]

Yes I am correct if you look at this picture you can see all be it quiet hard the is a flange on the coupler

 

I think that flange is just the end of where the tap stopped cutting threads.  Of course some may be different from others, though.   Here's a picture of a coupler and isolator that I slid together.  The PTFE slides easily all the way into the isolator with no space between them.

@Bob-Hepple Or you're looking at a flange on the outside of the cylinder, which i was't seeing at first, I think I see what you're talking about now. Yes that could be present on one of my isolators too. I'll check that out later

And here's a look down inside

Edited March 28, 2016 by Guest

[chrisw 70]

should indeed not be there, if the hot-end-isolator will drop the half mm (or what is it) you will loos all pressure of the PTFE.... and get leaks... you probably don't have any pressure right now...

 

I have 2 UM2s here. One has no space there, the other does. And both are tight with pressure. On the one with space present I've tried tightening more when it's warm, hot, and cold, and I don't think it'll get tighter without me damaging something.

Unfortunately both these metal Isolators may be from different sources and I'm not sure which is which. I've bought some from UM and some from GR5, and they all ended up in one plastic bag

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I just checked 5 ... 1 did not sink in completely. Like you I can't tell anymore if it's an Ultimaker part or 3Dsolex sourced.

I think it's important that you can "feel" the pressure you put on the spacer. So I would advice before mounting to only put in the hot-end-isolator (push as deep as it can) and than feel if there is any friction when pushed in the bottom aluminium part, as that would give you a false sense that you tightened the spacer enough.

[chrisw 70]

I think it's important that you can "feel" the pressure you put on the spacer.

 

The good news: There's guaranteed to be 0 slop in that joint for the nozzle when the head moves back and forth

[gudo 246]

Hi Bob,

my 2 cents with your permission

here's a view of the hot end, all sizes come from the original UM2 parts & Olsson block

the advantage of the original spring is that it can always maintain the isolator fixed against the lower hot end support, so there is no risk of changing the height relative to the adjust buildplate, the downside , is that the spring exerts a constant pressure on the PTFE which may deform more easily in case of overheating.

"The precaution is to avoid overheating."

In case of replacement of the spring by a rigid spacer, it is absolutely important to observe the distance between the flange of the PTFE and the spring housing of the upper hot end support.( +/- 9.3mm mesured on my UM2 Extended with Olsson block, I keep use the spring)

If this spacer is too long = too much pressure on the PTFE risk of rapid degradation of this one

in cold condition also !

If too short = there will play, and the adjust buildplate will be obsolete = layer print troubles

 

The allowing distance between the upper support spring housing and the lower hot end support is

17mm+3mm= 20mm

from the isolator flange + PTFE + spacer = 20mm ( the PTFE is in right place when the nozzle is mount, if the nozzle thread height varies that will affect also the PTFE position).

The height of the replacement spring spacer is very important

for sample:

If PTFE 1mm shorter, spacer must be 1mm longer

Hope that help.

[neotko 1,417]

By checking the assembly um2, after adjusting the correct position of all the parts (the step file don't seems properly assembled) seems like the distance from ptfe to the top alu it's 10.50mm, but if the upper part of the steel isn't inside, then it's 11.50. Also I suppose that if that part isn't in contact with the aluminium that should change the heat dissipation of the design.

[gudo 246]

The allowing distance between the upper support spring housing and the lower hot end support is

17mm+3mm= 20mm

from the isolator flange + PTFE + spacer = 20mm ( the PTFE is in right place when the nozzle is mount, if the nozzle thread height varies that will affect also the PTFE position).

 

sorry I would say" when Olsson block is mount" no t" nozzle"

[gudo 246]

I checked also from the assembly step files and have the same size on my UM2 mount

9.3mm

[bob-hepple 59]

All

Thank you all for taking the time in explaining where I'm going wrong, if the pre assure on my Ptfe is not enough do I have to strip the unit right down or can I adjust it without another total strip and clean. I originally set the coupler off the OB 1 mm so I take it I have 1 mm of adjustment?...

Chrisw

You are correct the flange I talked about is on the outside so my coupler will not go flush

So there is done tension there ?? Just not enough?

Thanks to you all most appreciated.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

You should do the height adjustment by turning the hot-end-isolator until you feel the added pressure. The 1 mm is just a starting point. No need to take it apart, you can just turn the hot-end-isolator by sticking a small allen key into on of the holes. In some cases it turns difficult, I mostly noticed it with the combination of an old hot-end-isolator and a new olsson block, in that case you may need to do it while the block is hot.

[bob-hepple 59]

ultiarjan

Thank you!!

[neotko 1,417]

Just wanted to share a think about Group process, that I just did found out a week ago

Like many thinks on S3D, the documentation it's... well. short to non existant

GROUPING AND PROCESS

Change settings on 5 process with just changing it on one...

There's a think that happens on the brain when you start to work with 6 process like me. When that happens you are sometimes afraid to change stuff like temperature, fan speed, and for example bed size.

The think, that's its' quite amazing imo, it's that with S3D, when you Group X number of process, something really beautifull happens. And that's that you can actually ummm let see if this example it's easier to explain.

You have 5 process, all with different nozzle sizes, different layer heights, and even different infills. But all of them, have the same temp, fan speed and ofc bed size. Ok, what do you have to do to change the temperature of the whole print? You might have to go one by one writing the new temps, or new fan speeds. And that's a MESS...

But the beautifull think it's that if you select your Process and GROUP them (ctrl+g) ALL the settings that are in common at that moment become CONNECTED! So... You group 5 process, change the temperature on 1 Process, and Instamagically all the grouped process have that temp changed, the bed size changed, etc. AND THAT's soo beautifull.

S3D guys might lack in documentation, but sure they know how to make a program.

It's very badly explained (well it's quite ok, but it's quite hidden!) Link to the video at 03:22

 

So with this, I can open a FFF file (format S3D uses to pack a full bed with objects, positions, process) and group 5 process, change the temperature, bed size. Without going one by one. For example I can change my profiles from 3.2mm retraction (umo+) to 2.5mm (um2 1.75mm) retraction in just a few clicks.