Ultimaker S5 | impressions & opinions

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I wonder if the modified feeder system can be, or will be, retrofitted for the UM3 Series....

[nallath 1,120]

Just now, kmanstudios said:

I wonder if the modified feeder system can be, or will be, retrofitted for the UM3 Series....

Don't pin me down on it (not a mechanical engineer), but from what i understood it won't be retro-fitted. Not because we don't want to (because we really, really want to! We originally wanted to put it in the UM3 on launch, but had to scrap it weeks before the launch), but because we couldn't get it to fit in the mounting holes that were already there.

Making a retro kit would mean a new backplate and that's a pain in the behind to get right (it will cost a ton of time to replace it and shipping will also be a nightmare)

[Brulti 177]

5 minutes ago, nallath said:

The problem is that with the UM3 and with the UM3E we only know what we try to extrude. Not what we were actually able to extrude. As most of you probably have encountered at some point in time; These two are not the same. That's where the magic of the flow sensor plays a role; then we have a much better idea of what is going on.

 

I've never really looked at it, but is there that much of a difference on a whole spool? Say, for a roll of PLA, so about 95m of filament, what is the average difference between what we tried to extrude and what was actually extruded? I'm guessing it also depends on what we're trying to print, if tehre's many retractions, grinding problems and such. But, personally, I think the info would still be quite useful. And, once we're down to the end of the spool, we can just measure it by ourselves for the last few meters. It would still save quite a lot of guesswork.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

12 minutes ago, nallath said:

Making a retro kit would mean a new backplate and that's a pain in the behind to get right (it will cost a ton of time to replace it and shipping will also be a nightmare)

Wonder if it could be a kit that a user could mod. It would be nice.

Edited April 26, 2018 by kmanstudios

[Xalara 6]

6 hours ago, SandervG said:

If you would have to go through all vendors and all filaments yes, but I'm sure there will be a smarter way. I heard something about a possibility to use a short code that represented a specific filament from a vendor which could be on the packaging. Like you say, let's wait the solutions that are presented! 

 

So then, what I'm extrapolating here is that Ultimaker is working with a number of filament manufacturers to include Ultimaker profiles for their filament in a future update to Cura? Release date still TBD.

 

The reason I'm extrapolating here is that from the filament manufacturer side of things I have been hearing whispers of how stringent Ultimaker's tests are. Not a bad thing since we want profiles to be reliable.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

10 minutes ago, Xalara said:

I have been hearing whispers of how stringent Ultimaker's tests are. Not a bad thing since we want profiles to be reliable.

[nallath 1,120]

I know our material / processing team and I'm not surprised to hear about the stringent tests. We have super high quality demands.

[SandervG 1,521]

19 minutes ago, Xalara said:

 

So then, what I'm extrapolating here is that Ultimaker is working with a number of filament manufacturers to include Ultimaker profiles for their filament in a future update to Cura? Release date still TBD.

 

The reason I'm extrapolating here is that from the filament manufacturer side of things I have been hearing whispers of how stringent Ultimaker's tests are. Not a bad thing since we want profiles to be reliable.

 

If by '..their filament in a future..' you mean a manufacturers filament profile in Cura, then yes. That would be correct

[cjs 34]

40 minutes ago, nallath said:

Making a retro kit would mean a new backplate and that's a pain in the behind to get right (it will cost a ton of time to replace it and shipping will also be a nightmare)

Why not do it the same way as with the Ultimaker 2+ feeder upgrade?

The feeder upgrade for the UM2 shipped with this small backplate if you remember. 

[Xalara 6]

35 minutes ago, SandervG said:

 

If by '..their filament in a future..' you mean a manufacturers filament profile in Cura, then yes. That would be correct

 

Yay, and yeah I'm pretty sure the one I'm hoping for most (PolyMaker) manufactures their own, or at least they are closer to the manufacturer side than other filament makers simply because they offer materials I don't really see elsewhere

Edited April 26, 2018 by Xalara
Fixed meaning

[uncle_bob 21]

Hi

 

One would guess that (except for crashes) the amount of filament commanded is always greater than what ultimately goes out the spout. Put another way, the feeder can slip, but it can't over step. The net result is that you over estimate how much filament has been used. If you write that back to the spool there will be a bit more on the spool than the NFC *thinks* is on it. As long as the result is not a hard stop I don't have any problem with that tradeoff. If it simply tells me "you need 127 grams and I think you have 119 on the spool" that's great. If it will not let me proceed .... not so great. 

 

Bob

[Brulti 177]

4 minutes ago, uncle_bob said:

Hi

 

One would guess that (except for crashes) the amount of filament commanded is always greater than what ultimately goes out the spout. Put another way, the feeder can slip, but it can't over step. The net result is that you over estimate how much filament has been used. If you write that back to the spool there will be a bit more on the spool than the NFC *thinks* is on it. As long as the result is not a hard stop I don't have any problem with that tradeoff. If it simply tells me "you need 127 grams and I think you have 119 on the spool" that's great. If it will not let me proceed .... not so great. 

 

Bob

 

I agree, this would need to be an information, but something that wouldn't prevent us from starting a print, something we can ignore if we want to.

[Daid 306]

Amount of filament left will be be an indication. Note that we already track this with NFC spools, but only by the amount that we think we use, and thus is off due to material slip.

 

Also, with the end-of-filament detection of the flow sensor, why not start a print even if there isn't enough material on a spool? Use up ALL your material.

 

Finally. Apparently, the S5 feeders current design almost fits the UM3, mechanically. There is the point where the motor needs to turn the other way around. And some part will grind against the back panel. And if you have an UM3 with flow-sensor cables, those cables are a bit on the short side for the right feeder. With a bit of work, it can fit according to our mechanical engineers.

 

But there are currently no plans to put this out as an upgrade kit, as I said before. The general consensus seems to be against upgrade kits.

[uncle_bob 21]

Hi

 

I realize this isn't a democracy and you *do* have costs associated with any sort of retrofit kit. It's not just the cost of the parts. There is design time, time to write instructions, and inevitably support when things don't quite go right. All that said, I think a number of us would be very interested in even a labor intensive kit based retrofit process. The cable issue sounds like either a replacement cable / extension cable / splice job would do the trick. Not at all sure what the "new" back to keep the motor from grinding involves. 

 

Bob

[Swissengineer 25]

6 hours ago, nallath said:

The problem is that with the UM3 and with the UM3E we only know what we try to extrude. Not what we were actually able to extrude. As most of you probably have encountered at some point in time; These two are not the same. That's where the magic of the flow sensor plays a role; then we have a much better idea of what is going on.

 

As far as I know, the S5 won't do it from launch (because there is always to much to do for a launch ;)). But i don't think it will take long for it to be added.

I hope it will be ready for dinner then....

[Brulti 177]

17 hours ago, Daid said:

But there are currently no plans to put this out as an upgrade kit, as I said before. The general consensus seems to be against upgrade kits.

 

Then maybe you could release the plans and specs, and the engineers in the community would probably be able to work out the kinks and such and create their own upgrade kits?

[JohnInOttawa 104]

I second that motion.  I can understand that the Ultimaker team has only so much time and resources to work with.  Once a printer goes into 'legacy' status such that no new development will be occurring on it, then why not open source those things that the community would like to continue to grow but Ultimaker cannot make a case for?

 

Now, that said, it may be that some of what we are asking to flow down from new engineering is still covered by patents, in which case I understand the restriction.  Hopefully that would only affect a small portion of what the users could benefit from.

 

John

[foehnsturm 969]

59 minutes ago, Brulti said:

 

Then maybe you could release the plans and specs, and the engineers in the community would probably be able to work out the kinks and such and create their own upgrade kits?

We are actually working on a flow sensor upgrade for the UM2+ which mechanically also fits to the UM3.

Now the big question is who wants to take care of the UM3 firmware integration?

 

[ahoeben 1,948]

39 minutes ago, JohnInOttawa said:

Once a printer goes into 'legacy' status such that no new development will be occurring on it, then why not open source those things that the community would like to continue to grow but Ultimaker cannot make a case for?

 

The UMO, UMO+, UM2 and UM2+ are all open source, with released BOM and parts schematics. The UM3 is nowhere near "legacy" status.

[JohnInOttawa 104]

I don't equate legacy and obsolete.  Legacy products may still be in production and will get support for in service problems, but new design work is scaled back.

 

As a comparison, the Airbus 320 (not the new engine option) is already considered a 'legacy' aircraft, so it is hard to get new engineering done on it, but new ones are still rolling off the line.

 

John

[robinmdh 100]

On 4/23/2018 at 9:40 PM, kmanstudios said:

That is the beauty of this...it is not for everybody. And, I can go for 50% more buildplate. That will be a very big thing for me. 

I get a feeling the S5 will be seriously stress tested ?

 

On 4/23/2018 at 8:23 PM, cjs said:

On 4/23/2018 at 8:15 PM, uncle_bob said:

So - the obvious question - is the new lever retrofit-able to the older machines? ( Obviously I hope it is. That would save me about $12,000) ....

Sadly it's not  

bad news: there are indeed no plans for an upgrade kit AFAIK.

good news: The S5 feeders almost perfectly mount just fine on the back of an UM3 (needs an extra hole or spacers or minor redesign), the cables fit, SW I'm not sure, but should be easy enough to turn on given that it was done for the development of the flow sensor...

Edit:

didn't see @Daid's post saying pretty much the same thing.

Finally. Apparently, the S5 feeders current design almost fits the UM3, mechanically. There is the point where the motor needs to turn the other way around. And some part will grind against the back panel. And if you have an UM3 with flow-sensor cables, those cables are a bit on the short side for the right feeder. With a bit of work, it can fit according to our mechanical engineers. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by robinmdh

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi. Small domestic note; I've moved this topic from 'Official news' to the '3D printers' subforum as we have moved passed the launch and it was still quite active. Other members may find it here more easily if they want to engage

 

[KennethKenneth 0]

Will this machine or the machines before get a simulation processing options.

[uncle_bob 21]

17 minutes ago, KennethKenneth said:

Will this machine or the machines before get a simulation processing options.

 

Hi

 

Simulation processing options = play the print in Cura ??

 

Bob 

[KennethKenneth 0]

Thank you.