We have big news...

[kazl 2]

7 hours ago, Smithy said:

 

If you mean the AirManager and the MaterialStation, then no, they are only for the S5.

 

I can understand the AirManager being specifically for the S5, but why the MaterialStation? I don't see any good reason why it couldn't work with an S3/UM3 bar artificial segmentation. 

 

4 hours ago, Xalara said:

The Ultimaker S3 seems... Meh? It comes across as a minor refresh three years after the original that happens to be $900 USD more expensive. Don't get me wrong, I love my Ultimaker 3, but when there's a big price jump I do expect a bit more than what comes across as a minor refresh.

 

The entire announcement is... shockingly bad. For $900 more Ultimaker is giving you a touch screen and a feed sensor. Is there anything else? 

Then the S5 gets a AirManager which is just a cover with what honest to god looks like a Hakko FA400 shoved at the end. The Material Station at least has a bit of promise but not for the price. All3DP states that a fully decked out S5 is going to cost $9,100. For that kind of money you can pick up the gigantic Form 3L. Or an SLS printer. The Makerbot Method by comparison looks reasonable.

[Carla_Birch 116]

48 minutes ago, kazl said:

 

The entire announcement is... shockingly bad. For $900 more Ultimaker is giving you a touch screen and a feed sensor. Is there anything else? 
 

 

Better leveling same as the S5 and i would say its also got the harded extruder so the CC cores can be used without wearing down the extruder gears.

 

The build size is a bit wider but then you lose some of the depth what i do find a little odd, should have atlest matched the U3 

[geetee 0]

so, I seen the news on twitter, hmm, looks great, I could use that on my S5, then I just seen the price and had a belly laugh, jaysus wept thats eye watering price for something that would merely add some convienance to the S5 experience, which thankfully I'm more that happy with. Is it April 1st in Netherlands 🙂 gl.

[ctbeke 133]

3 hours ago, Carla_Birch said:

 

Better leveling same as the S5 and i would say its also got the harded extruder so the CC cores can be used without wearing down the extruder gears.

 

The build size is a bit wider but then you lose some of the depth what i do find a little odd, should have atlest matched the U3 

 

From the top of my head, the differences with UM3 are:

 

* Multi-point bed leveling (resulting is better 1st layer adhesion)

* Glass door to prevent (most) air draft

* Filament flow sensor

* Hardened feeder wheel to support abrasive materials (thus supporting the CC Red Print Core)

* Trinamic stepper drivers (same as S5), so much quieter while printing

* Improved feeder lever (instead of that kinda hard-to-use force push button)

* Touch screen interface (after working with it compared to the old click wheel you really don't wanna go back...)

* Improved gantry to support the full build volume with both print cores

* Integrated power supply (no more messy power brick somewhere around your printer)

* Higher EMC class rating due to improved electronics (safer for certain environments)

* Stiffer build plate gantry and wider diameter X/Y axis

* Improved print head (same as S5, which was an iteration on top of the UM3 head)

* Slightly different side panels and screws (cleaner finish)

* A UMB port to support possible future hardware add-ons

 

I'll leave it up to the market to decide if this justifies the price point 😛

[Carla_Birch 116]

15 minutes ago, ctbeke said:

 

From the top of my head, the differences with UM3 are:

 

* Multi-point bed leveling (resulting is better 1st layer adhesion)

* Glass door to prevent (most) air draft

* Filament flow sensor

* Hardened feeder wheel to support abrasive materials (thus supporting the CC Red Print Core)

* Trinamic stepper drivers (same as S5), so much quieter while printing

* Improved feeder lever (instead of that kinda hard-to-use force push button)

* Touch screen interface (after working with it compared to the old click wheel you really don't wanna go back...)

* Improved gantry to support the full build volume with both print cores

* Integrated power supply (no more messy power brick somewhere around your printer)

* Higher EMC class rating due to improved electronics (safer for certain environments)

* Stiffer build plate gantry and wider diameter X/Y axis

* Improved print head (same as S5, which was an iteration on top of the UM3 head)

* Slightly different side panels and screws (cleaner finish)

* A UMB port to support possible future hardware add-ons

 

I'll leave it up to the market to decide if this justifies the price point 😛

 

Yeps, i personally love my S5 and hoping to get a 2nd one some time next year to ease some the printing load on my first thats running almost 24/7 all the time.

 

I might get temped by the S3 later down the line to replace my old Flashforge Dreamer what was the first printer i got. I want to keep atlest one of my 1.75mm printers just because of the extra range of filaments you can get. Would love to see Ultimaker make a printer that supported 1.75

[rebekah_harper 60]

I’m sorry but I’m left underwhelmed. 
 

it’s pushing me more to resin printing. 
 

 

[cloakfiend 995]

Resin Printing is a whole new ball game. and you don't have anywhere near the materials to play with....just resin. It shatters. it still needs post production and a lot more of it. However I cant say too much seeing as I've never used it but I can say it will cost you a lot more in the long run from what I've read.

From what I understand unless someone corrects me, Its nice for display purposes, but thats it. PLA/ PHA with acetone and a bespoke manual support system gives me results that pretty much match resin even for small details like fingers so I don't really care much for resin at the moment. SLA is better in pure resolution but I'm not too fussed. You can't come back to an SLA printer after a while like you can with an FDM one, because of the resin. So if your not gonna be using it everyday don't bother.

[kazl 2]

42 minutes ago, cloakfiend said:

Resin Printing is a whole new ball game. and you don't have anywhere near the materials to play with....just resin. It shatters. it still needs post production and a lot more of it. However I cant say too much seeing as I've never used it but I can say it will cost you a lot more in the long run from what I've read.

From what I understand unless someone corrects me, Its nice for display purposes, but thats it. PLA/ PHA with acetone and a bespoke manual support system gives me results that pretty much match resin even for small details like fingers so I don't really care much for resin at the moment. SLA is better in pure resolution but I'm not too fussed. You can't come back to an SLA printer after a while like you can with an FDM one, because of the resin. So if your not gonna be using it everyday don't bother.

 

Resin printing is expensive. Formlabs resin is $150 a liter and you can roughly estimate 1L to be ~1 kg as far as material usage. Some third party ones are $60-100 but I've had worse results with those. But the results do speak for themselves as far as resolution is concerned and it is a night and day difference from FDM. Not only that but I've also found it to be consistently faster than my Ultimaker 3's. As for actual material properties you can get resins which will behave like rubber, behave like ABS and lots of other plastics for functional requirements. But you won't be able to melt them.

 

Having started with a Resin printer and moved into FDM, I find them to be nice for using regular thermal plastics and being cheap to print. UM3's already were a bit pricey being such a heavily commoditized technology, but still it wasn't unreasonable to have a group of them humming away printing either multiple parts or sets of whatever you need. Take away the cost advantage and you've seriously degraded that value proposition. At at the S5 Pro price point of $9K you have SLS opened up as an option and Nylon power made parts are quite incredible in their resolution and matching strength. But if you must get an FDM printer, why not just go with a Statasys at that point? The F120 is $12K but then at least you're getting a whole other level of quality and consistency.

Edited September 24, 2019 by kazl

[cloakfiend 995]

I don't need the filters and spool thing. I just need the printer itself. I still use my UM2 from time to time, but the S5 just makes my life easier and less hassle. I click a button and as long as theres material on the spool I'm good to go. Im satisfied with the quality if i print slower and smarter. I simply cant justify an SLS printer ATM. I'd like to print some rubber wheels for fun but cant see myself getting an SLA just for fun. I waste enough money on chems as it is! FDM printers can be justified for fun. I've just found ultimakers to deliver faster and consistently superior quality to others at the time of buying. Maybe if I become a master at Zbrush I 'may' get an SLA but until then I'm good with my S5 and UM2. Unfortunately for the casual user, making things idiot proof and one click operational increases the price due to research and development. For production you need consistency and the Ultimakers have it.

 

The only qualm or issue I have recently realised (even though I kinda new about it back in the day is that the centre screw is open to the elements which means if you don't clean it from dust and debris from time to time then you will start to get layer lines especially on taller objects, but that is just a maintenance thing, if it was covered and I couldn't get it to clean it, it would be much worse! But with the new lid thing, this shouldn't be a problem anymore for the S5. Other than that, gravity is my only real enemy!

 

I'd recommend Ultimaker printers to anyone seeking good quality prints. After all quality is all I care about and the reason I bought one in the first place. So I'll give credit where credit is due, but to think I was going to get a Makerbot all those years ago makes me tremble.

[RudydG 62]

6 hours ago, rebekah_harper said:

I’m sorry but I’m left underwhelmed. 
 

it’s pushing me more to resin printing. 
 

 

Same feeling here. Next friday i go and see a demo of the formlabs 3, also the Zortrax Inkspire draws my attention.

 

[BiMNrd 11]

4 minutes ago, RudydG said:

Same feeling here. Next friday i go and see a demo of the formlabs 3, also the Zortrax Inkspire draws my attention.

 

I have had the formlabs.. the issue is that those parts arent end use parts and the build volume is tiny.

 

Im am going to jump into the s5 and get the material handling unit down the line. I need the larger build volume.

 

Do any of you own an s5 already?

[RudydG 62]

6 minutes ago, BiMNrd said:

I have had the formlabs.. the issue is that those parts arent end use parts and the build volume is tiny.

 

Im am going to jump into the s5 and get the material handling unit down the line. I need the larger build volume.

 

Do any of you own an s5 already?

I have a 3 and a S5. Both very good printers. At this moment i have budget to buy another printer, and wanted to try out resin printing. Could be another 3, or S3.

As for the S5, i don't need the material handling box, i have used to live with the limitations, i have 3 dryboxes, and the end of roll sensor of the S5 works very good.

[BiMNrd 11]

On 9/23/2019 at 7:23 PM, cloakfiend said:

its the 24th now. Still nothing. 🤔

 

4 minutes ago, RudydG said:

I have a 3 and a S5. Both very good printers. At this moment i have budget to buy another printer, and wanted to try out resin printing. Could be another 3, or S3.

As for the S5, i don't need the material handling box, i have used to live with the limitations, i have 3 dryboxes, and the end of roll sensor of the S5 works very good.

How accurate are parts printed in the s5 dimensionally?  I cant seem to find this in any of the specs, but I know is one of makerbot propositions on their method printers. 

[RudydG 62]

10 minutes ago, BiMNrd said:

 

How accurate are parts printed in the s5 dimensionally?  I cant seem to find this in any of the specs, but I know is one of makerbot propositions on their method printers. 

My 3 is better than my S5 in terms of print quality and dimensional accuracy. Not to say the S5 is bad, just the 3 is a tad finer. But i also suppose the 2+ is even better....

I use my S5 for functional prototypes. Mostly Tough pla, and often i do a horizontal layer compensation of -0.1 in Cura.

[rebekah_harper 60]

6 hours ago, kazl said:

 

Resin printing is expensive. Formlabs resin is $150 a liter and you can roughly estimate 1L to be ~1 kg as far as material usage. Some third party ones are $60-100 but I've had worse results with those. But the results do speak for themselves as far as resolution is concerned and it is a night and day difference from FDM. Not only that but I've also found it to be consistently faster than my Ultimaker 3's. As for actual material properties you can get resins which will behave like rubber, behave like ABS and lots of other plastics for functional requirements. But you won't be able to melt them.

 

Having started with a Resin printer and moved into FDM, I find them to be nice for using regular thermal plastics and being cheap to print. UM3's already were a bit pricey being such a heavily commoditized technology, but still it wasn't unreasonable to have a group of them humming away printing either multiple parts or sets of whatever you need. Take away the cost advantage and you've seriously degraded that value proposition. At at the S5 Pro price point of $9K you have SLS opened up as an option and Nylon power made parts are quite incredible in their resolution and matching strength. But if you must get an FDM printer, why not just go with a Statasys at that point? The F120 is $12K but then at least you're getting a whole other level of quality and consistency.

Resin cost around £40,-/L and there are more resin types now that before. Rubber, Abs like, clear, high impact, wax etc... as aid the colour range which is broader if you get to the colour mixing into clear resin. 

printer wise if you look at phrozen range it’s pretty good and reasonable price. 
I have an anycubic photon, for over a year, detail is impressive, post productions is as much as printing FDM with supports if not less. 
build area for the photon is small but phrozen have brought out a large build area and reviews are pretty good.

time to print is pretty fast with the LCD style as each layer takes 10-15 seconds.

Formlabs have brought out the Form3L but at £8000,- for a complete setup it’s a bit out of my price range but the tech thats gone into it you can justify the price.

 

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @BiMNrd, thanks for chipping in! What type of accuracy do you need for your 3D prints? 

[SandervG 1,521]

While reading through the comments here I find it interesting that the introduction of these new products would make one consider other technologies like SLS or SLA. I imagine one invests in, and looks for a technology that matches their needs. A budget defines the options you have to match your needs, but does not dictate them, right? One can say that it's all 3D printing, but from one technology to the next they differ greatly and they serve very different applications. Besides the applications, the ease of use and post processing also don't really compare. 

 

Anyway, I'm still at the TCT show where we just introduced the products and we're quite excited with the launch and feedback we've been getting so far. If you are curious about both products, I wrote a short introduction on both of them in the 3D printer section.

Ultimaker S5 Pro Bundle

Ultimaker S3

 

Allow me to create a little bit of context about our new products, in case this wasn't clear yet. I'll try to keep it relatively short, but if you are interested to learn more about it, please feel free to ask and I'll  happily explain further! Our S-line products are designed and developed to work in studio/office environments. When a company or organisation hasn't adopted 3D printing yet, it usually starts with one enthusiastic engineer who has seen the light and is a believer. (This person is amazing!) When someone has convinced superiors to explore the benefits of 3D printing the budget is usually tight. We developed the Ultimaker S3 to offer impressive performance on a smaller footprint and for a lower budget than an Ultimaker S5. While, still being able to enjoy most of the same features. This engineer usually also uses Cura mostly for its slicing capabilities and the marketplace to find material profiles for one of the many materials that are available. 

 

When 3D printing is acknowledged and accepted, it is time to scale up production. And this needs to be done reliably, otherwise it's impossible to standardise processes and make any form of planning. That is why we developed the Ultimaker Pro Bundle, it offers flexibility by being able to load 6 different materials and reliability by being able to go from one empty spool to the next full one. Together, this is a solution that you can rely on 24/7. 

 

Obviously, both 'stages' also rely on a lot of software support and features, which are also taken into account. But I feel those are not part of the discussion right now. Hope this helps you to gain a little bit more understanding about our products and their intent. Let me know if you have any further questions. 

[Xalara 6]

I think we got derailed by SLA a little bit here. That said, I think a lot of angst is coming from the fact that one of Ultimaker's chief competitors released a refresh of their SLA printer that came with significant engineering upgrades and the price remained the same. Whereas I look at the S3 and I see a relatively minor product refresh that is significantly more expensive.

 

The S3 is still a great product, which is why it's getting great feedback, the problem is that Ultimaker hasn't justified the price increase. That is why people are giving pause to their praise.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Xalara

[BiMNrd 11]

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

Hi @BiMNrd, thanks for chipping in! What type of accuracy do you need for your 3D prints? 

 I am looking model an object or part based on a 3d scan and have the 3d printed part fit or work. I would probably want +/- 0.01 or 1/64" at best or 1/32" at absolute worst. 

 

I also want to make certain the supports when removed leave a " nice smooth" surface. I am comparing and or setting my expectations based on tiertimes up mini es abs printer.

[UbuntuBirdy 56]

hmmm... seems UM turns more and more to the business clients and away from the people that made UM the brand it is today... Of course UM tries to make as much money as possible as any other business (I would try the same in their position). But I'm not sure if it is a good decision to ignore the smaller clients that can not afford an UM3 or higher...

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

5 minutes ago, UbuntuBirdy said:

seems UM turns more and more to the business clients and away from the people that made UM the brand it is today

 

Let's not underestimate the number of businesses which bought an Ultimaker printer at an early stage (Ultimaker 2) and used (and still use) it for professional purposes.

I guess you refer mainly to makers. Yes, it's pretty obvious that Ultimaker does not primarily target makers with the S5 Pro Bundle. But a maker still can buy an Ultimaker 2+ which is a great machine and strong workhorse and can also be "upgraded" with e.g. Octoprint to a network printer (including a camera).

[UbuntuBirdy 56]

19 minutes ago, Dim3nsioneer said:

 

Let's not underestimate the number of businesses which bought an Ultimaker printer at an early stage (Ultimaker 2) and used (and still use) it for professional purposes.

I guess you refer mainly to makers. Yes, it's pretty obvious that Ultimaker does not primarily target makers with the S5 Pro Bundle. But a maker still can buy an Ultimaker 2+ which is a great machine and strong workhorse and can also be "upgraded" with e.g. Octoprint to a network printer (including a camera).

All true and I know it is important to serve especially these clients with more up-to-date-products. But this is not what I'm talking about. Since UM2+ there was no new product for makers and there is still no product for beginners! So what I think a new product could look like is something between UMO and UM2+ or even below UMO. Or a cheaper, not that accurate but bigger printer. Or perhaps something to recycle brims, supports and fails: a shredder and a extruder for making your own filament... Or a modular upgrade for the UM2+ with e.g. a new mainboard (and firmware) and then options to add an filament sensor or (like you mentioned with Octoprint) a network connection or a camera or newer steppers or different hotends or or or...

But this is only my opinion and I do absolutely not know what is the marketing strategy of UM. I do not want to say they do something wrong, I wanna only say it "could be" a wrong decision.

 

Whatever the future brings, I'm totally happy with my UM2+ and I love the UM community and that's why I'll never regret buying a UM!

[nallath 1,120]

14 hours ago, UbuntuBirdy said:

All true and I know it is important to serve especially these clients with more up-to-date-products. But this is not what I'm talking about. Since UM2+ there was no new product for makers and there is still no product for beginners! So what I think a new product could look like is something between UMO and UM2+ or even below UMO. Or a cheaper, not that accurate but bigger printer. Or perhaps something to recycle brims, supports and fails: a shredder and a extruder for making your own filament... Or a modular upgrade for the UM2+ with e.g. a new mainboard (and firmware) and then options to add an filament sensor or (like you mentioned with Octoprint) a network connection or a camera or newer steppers or different hotends or or or...

But this is only my opinion and I do absolutely not know what is the marketing strategy of UM. I do not want to say they do something wrong, I wanna only say it "could be" a wrong decision.

 

Whatever the future brings, I'm totally happy with my UM2+ and I love the UM community and that's why I'll never regret buying a UM!

Don't worry. A lot of the people working at Ultimaker still have "the small guys / girls" at heart. Probably because most of them used to be on the other side before. So even if the recently announced products don't match up with the expectations of that part of the market, it's by no means an indication that we forgot about all the other parts.

[bob-hepple 59]

Just Returned from the TCT Birmingham and I'm seriously considering buying the s3 I like the footprint I like what I see under the bonnet, but I'm after reliability and quality of print, along with reliable Pva Supports, I've made no hiding the fact I don't use cura but will have to get over that, I would of like however the s5 material handler to be usable with the s3, if I have to watch moisture with pva it does not make sense to me to have to find a third party product that will do the job..  I think UM are moving away from the makers which is a bit sad but I think UM should also be aware with such a high price tag comes commitment from UM that the product is working and working well, if not then this erodes there Kudos. 

 

I think my s3 is in order ??

[RudydG 62]

Bob,

 

I use my S5 now about a year, and learned to live with the critical moisture sensitive materials without the material changer.

First, the S series have filament sensors, secondly Cura is a very good slicer (I was addicited to Simplify, but that simply does not work with S series, you lose all the benefits), which gives you the exact length of filament needed.

 

So what i do mostly, open the bag with moisture critic filament (PVA / Nylon ...), cut the needed length + 1mtr (for the tubing), and feed that into the printer.  Easy peasy, no need for this expensive adon. (although it has its advantages)

Edited September 26, 2019 by RudydG