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A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer


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Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

I just finished glueing the neodymium to the new carbonfil carriage and head holder.

image.thumb.jpg.386df5ef827f10b0107f78275ec04139.jpg

The thing I didn't account for its that this filament expands a bit more (I think) so now the linear bearings are a hard to push in. It's a good idea to put them on the freezer befor fitting them? I put them in a claed bad to avoid humidity but I'm not sure. Good or bad idea?

image.thumb.jpg.386df5ef827f10b0107f78275ec04139.jpg

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Given the size of these bearings, putting them in the freezer may make them contract ~.01mm on the OD. I don't think it will be significant in this bore size when pressing into plastic. The humidity probably not a concern as long as they dry thoroughly after the frost melts. Shouldn't hurt anything.

    I'm excited to see your assembly go together - although I'm mostly just lurking in this thread..

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Super all in with the bench vize. I had to do clean the inner side a bit but it's very very tight in now.

    Btw the 'woobly' of the other central part was the bearing itself. It woobles. Could have it be damaged because the distance wasn't perfect on the other design or its just normal to this bearings to die so fast?

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    Posted (edited) · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Ok, first tests show great success with the new head system. Just very little details changed but I think they are good improvements.

    Uploaded the new STLs to youmagine

    Mhc V3 Head Part2

    Mhc V3 Fan Head Holder

    Mhc V3 Fan Cap

    Mhc V3 Clamp

    This new parts, like the old ones, will need to get some 'drill' on the Head Part2 and Fan Head Holder. The side holes of the Fan Head Holder that connect to the Fan Cap I would suggest that before using them you get a screwdriver (electrical one I use) and pre-mark the holes with a m3 screw. This way it's much easier to get the fancap-fanheadholder ready, also the space used by the 25x25 5V fan that focus air on the peek (and keeps the heat from killing the printed stuff) did show great success on PLA version, but I would not use the new fancap design with pla since it's really close to the aluminum block. I also used a heat reflex paper that can go up to 400C to avoid the aluminum block heat from melting the printed fan cap (and also to keep the heat from going down to the print.

    Today I did the first print test with this fans and personally this it's the best robot I have print. 0.1mm layers 40mm/s 195C Bed at 60C Fans at 100% at layer 8. BQ cheap Black PLA

    IMG_6233.thumb.JPG.23a6dfa10963826515b6d4aa9310c5d4.JPG

    IMG_6236.thumb.JPG.6e40f34aedcb25613b011606a485bcb4.JPG

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    IMG_6249.thumb.JPG.64be3c75f10a2e0da9efc3a5967e8b35.JPG

    I also must say that this it's a very fast fandesign, I think the big leap of overhangs might be mostly because the new beta nozzle from @anders-olsson .. Dude this nozzle kickass... It's just ºoº

    IMG_6233.thumb.JPG.23a6dfa10963826515b6d4aa9310c5d4.JPG

    IMG_6236.thumb.JPG.6e40f34aedcb25613b011606a485bcb4.JPG

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    IMG_6249.thumb.JPG.64be3c75f10a2e0da9efc3a5967e8b35.JPG

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Maybe I'm spoilt with the quality my Ultimaker2 / Olsson Block with RSB nozzle / Diamond Age PLA combination delivers but it doesn't impress me very much. :p@gr5 for instance shows a picture around of an Ultimaker robot printed on his UMO with better overall quality... However, the ears are much better than usual I have to admit... so the air flow seems to be quite good.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I just finished glueing the neodymium to the new carbonfil carriage and head holder.

    image.thumb.jpg.386df5ef827f10b0107f78275ec04139.jpg

    The thing I didn't account for its that this filament expands a bit more (I think) so now the linear bearings are a hard to push in. It's a good idea to put them on the freezer befor fitting them? I put them in a claed bad to avoid humidity but I'm not sure. Good or bad idea?

     

    Alternatively, you could use a reemer to make them the perfect size.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    In the end I just pushed in (freeze cold) with the bench vise. Carbon it's tough and also printed with 4 perimeters and 26infill. No external deformation. But a reamer (I don't have) sounds like a solid solution.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Maybe I'm spoilt with the quality my Ultimaker2 / Olsson Block with RSB nozzle / Diamond Age PLA combination delivers but it doesn't impress me very much. :p@gr5 for instance shows a picture around of an Ultimaker robot printed on his UMO with better overall quality... However, the ears are much better than usual I have to admit... so the air flow seems to be quite good.

     

    Indeed there's a lot of room for improvement. I'm teally really bad at making fancaps. Like way bad. Hopefully now that the caps are a separated print someone will make one better. Also I think my fans at max don't push enough air. But for now I'm happy with it. And it's the first time I get the ears right :D

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    Posted (edited) · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Also @dim3nsioneer wait untill you see the new nozzles... They are sexy ;)

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Try lowering the speed a bit, here is 50 vs 35 mm/s with my UM2 and the new nozzle:2015-08-01-6025.thumb.jpg.b51a88956b294fd022c286ce35e63bf5.jpg

    (sorry about the lens distortion)

    2015-08-01-6025.thumb.jpg.b51a88956b294fd022c286ce35e63bf5.jpg

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I really think that my fans are way to weak. I ordered today a new ones (25€ each) 40x40x20 with almost double airflow and just enough amps to be able to use 4 without going beyond the 300milliamps. And that robots do look amazing. I'll get the new fans Tuesday so I'll give it a new test but this time with faberdashery.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Today I been focusing on testing how much mm/s I could get with my umo extruder without gears on the IRobertI feeder. I was able to go 10mm3/s at 120mm/s 0.2 layer without a single underextrusion (1.75mm) with your nozzle. I think I got go 150mm/s at 0.2 layer without problems (quality at 100mm starts to break) Long boring video at:

    Speed ramps 5mm/s each 5mm. Since there's no 'circular' test in gcode for 1.75 I did mine with simplify. Also before this test I was able to go to 95mm/s without underextrusion at 200C. Now I need to test how much I can go at 205-210 but I think I really could do 10mm3 at 210C-215C pla.

    So I was about to change the motor from umo+ to the um2 to avoid lack of power, but so far I think I'll just keep it on the bag. And sorry I derailed from the topic =)

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    @neotko

    you need to increase the air cavity under your fans. the air needs to build up some speed and pressure before it changes direction to blow on your nozzle. you may find some of the air is not flowing properly as it reflecting off the flat surface under the fan.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    @neotko

    you need to increase the air cavity under your fans. the air needs to build up some speed and pressure before it changes direction to blow on your nozzle. you may find some of the air is not flowing properly as it reflecting off the flat surface under the fan.

     

    Thank you! Didn't knew that. I really know very little about cooling, among many other stuff. Also this is my very first mod ever :D

    Changed the design to make the air 1cm taller and printed again. This time faberdashery with 0.07 layer and as @anders-olsson said 30mm/s. The print it's really nice. Clearly my fans now lack a bit of punch on the left side. My fans are 414F 4.7 CFM (no idea what this means) and the ones arriving monday are 414H 7.9 CFM (sounds like almoat the double air?). So hopefully with thia new fancap and the new fans I might finally make a perfect robot.

    Clearly looks much better. But also it needs more cooling. Or a better fancap.

    image.thumb.jpg.f17ad772d6943ddbd98d4c8a84859b98.jpg

    image.thumb.jpg.245d30b3b00f9415a8f7934c8398d26f.jpg

    image.thumb.jpg.f17ad772d6943ddbd98d4c8a84859b98.jpg

    image.thumb.jpg.245d30b3b00f9415a8f7934c8398d26f.jpg

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

     

    @neotko

    you need to increase the air cavity under your fans. the air needs to build up some speed and pressure before it changes direction to blow on your nozzle. you may find some of the air is not flowing properly as it reflecting off the flat surface under the fan.

     

    Thank you! Didn't knew that. I really know very little about cooling, among many other stuff. Also this is my very first mod ever :D

    Changed the design to make the air 1cm taller and printed again. This time faberdashery with 0.07 layer and as @anders-olsson said 30mm/s. The print it's really nice. Clearly my fans now lack a bit of punch on the left side. My fans are 414F 4.7 CFM (no idea what this means) and the ones arriving monday are 414H 7.9 CFM (sounds like almoat the double air?). So hopefully with thia new fancap and the new fans I might finally make a perfect robot.

    Clearly looks much better. But also it needs more cooling. Or a better fancap.

    image.thumb.jpg.f17ad772d6943ddbd98d4c8a84859b98.jpg

    image.thumb.jpg.245d30b3b00f9415a8f7934c8398d26f.jpg

     

    Looking good. CFM means cubic feet per minute of air flow, so yeah, the higher the better.

    These fans won't compress much air, so if you calculate the open area of the fan, then make you outlet this size then it should be pretty true to this reading. If you make it smaller you will hear the fan slow down and the flow will reduce heaps.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Perfect!

    I have modified configuration.h but the GCode M302 is more safety.

    It works perfectly! Thanks to all

    I can go ahead on my project...

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    Posted (edited) · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Hi guys,

    I'm about to decide if I should draw up an idea I recently had for an UM2 add-on.  Not a tool changer but somewhat related.

    So I'd like to ask anyone working on an UM2 version just to post a few lines about his setup (which tool changer design, which printheads, what kind of feeder , ...) You could also point me to an existing write up like @ultiarjan's (I think there is one, this thread is becoming too large ...)

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I'm about to decide if I should draw up an idea I recently had for an UM2 add-on.  Not a tool changer but somewhat related.

     

    Now you're making me curious .... ( and my summary is on page 27 ... )

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Finally tested the E3D mount again, but it's giving nothing but trouble, even with a drop of oil there's huge friction in the head. I managed to get a print out... but very under-extruded.

    I'll probably try again... but am about to give up on E3D for the dual head setup, might keep it around for exotic materials...

    E3Dmagnetic.thumb.png.958970460f0258e5d4c319752386d315.png

    E3Dmount.thumb.png.e4eb50f4d176d9611375c192a2f30b82.png

    E3Dmagnetic.thumb.png.958970460f0258e5d4c319752386d315.png

    E3Dmount.thumb.png.e4eb50f4d176d9611375c192a2f30b82.png

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Same problems as me then. Its incredibly annoying...if only we knew how to fix it. I'll have a go at one more design with better cooling when I build the second printer. If that doesn't work, its merlin.

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    Posted (edited) · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I'm sure cooling is not my issue now, the airflow part of my design is an exact copy of the E3D cooling fan bracket (used there step file and just added the magnetic mount).

    I suspect an issue at the entrance of the bowden, I used the stock UM2 tube, but will give it another try with the E3D tube, it seems to have a somewhat larger ID.

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    Posted (edited) · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I really don't know a think about e3d heads but sure the bowden they use it's different than the ultimaker pfa meassures are not the standard that they use. Also just wondering about retraction you use. The e3d wiki says 2mm maximum for bowden.

    "Excessively long retractions will cause issues by dragging soft filament into cold areas. E3D-v6 hotends need less retraction than most hotends. For direct extrusion systems you should use anywhere from 0.5mm-1.0mm, for bowden systems you might want to go up to 2mm. Retraction beyond 2mm is likely to cause issues."

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I tried everything from no retraction to 2mm. Interestingly enough I know a few guys running e3d v6 on direct extruder setups with no problems. Its possible that the sum of the friction in a bowden setup is the problem, with the soft 'ball' of filament in the hotend being the culprit for the extra friction over standard hotend setup.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I probably spend a full working day on trying to get the E3D V5 extruder on a Delta Tower to work with PLA. My conclusion is that the E3D V5/V6 all metal design is not suitable for PLA.

    I tried all possible retraction and temperature settings, improved cooling, tried two different brands of PLA and one PLA/PHA.

    It just does not work reliably when you have a lot of retractions and the failure modes are exactly the same as when i experimented with a metal spacer and PLA in the UM2.

    In the end I drilled through the whole heatsink with a 4.2 mm drill and then made a new heatbreak with 4.1 mm inner diameter. I then lined it with PTFE tube all the way down to the nozzle, the same way the E3D Lite6 is designed:

    2015-08-14-6076.thumb.jpg.4d0cb80c7084e4cef85da42ff5eab05f.jpg

    And guess what, now it works perfectly fine with PLA.

    You can feel the difference when feeding PLA manually, that sudden random resistance after retractions that used to be there is gone now.

    So I don't know what people do, but in my mind the non lined E3D V5/V6 are not suitable for printing PLA (and probably not flexible filaments too). ABS will most likely print fine though.

    2015-08-14-6076.thumb.jpg.4d0cb80c7084e4cef85da42ff5eab05f.jpg

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Just a crazy crazy idea. Why the need of e3D? I suppose ofc it's because all metal can go 300C without parts that need replacement each number of hours. If so. To have a it working on any material maybe the trick could be to have two heat zones. Two heaters. One that stays around 90C less than the heat zone with some air cooling and constant pt100 control. Then a lower area with all metal and another heater/sensor that heats at the desired heat. This way the upper area can be full pla compatible with nice ptfe retracts and the lower area it's the hot area where the real temperature it's achieved. Since all the plastic at this heats work like a pneumatic system the retracts would just release preassure like on normal heaters and the upper controlled area with ptfe/peek/fan could keep the retracts in place without costy replacements. Ofc this it's just an idea Injust had :)

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